[confirmed] Flames will go after Derek Ryan in FA

[djsFlames]

Should be targeting a 50 plus point player, price tag be damned. 38 points is teetering between top six and bottom six. This is the kind of thing the team has done before because they were trying to dig in the bargain bin, and that approach hasn't worked when it came to making a palpable impact on the offensive output, but rather has just added another so-so piece to an overall so-so group to continue keeping it where it is.

People can trash the stance all they want but after Raymond, Brouwer, Jagr, Stewart etc.. in an attempt to move the needle, how have any of those worked out? That said if Ryan is merely a peripheral supplementary piece for wining faceoffs on a third line role and they're doing something else more likely to elevate the group then by all means.

And that said, he is young. But let's not be banking entirely on potential this coming season, nor grabbing from one single team that has underwhelmed as much as the Flames have. This coach input shouldn't be so prominent. It's easy to see Treliving really likes Peters the person not having interviewed anyone else for the job but it doesn't mean he has insights to who is going to really elevate the team from his very limited sample size. Maybe picking up guys from winning teams would help with the whole winning thing.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

By the way, there was a typo in my post earlier that listed stats on Ryan...

His 38 points would have put him in the top 6 among forwards on 23 of the 30 other teams, not 21.

That's right... 38 points puts you top 6 among forwards on 75% of the teams in the current NHL.

I can't speak for everyone, but for me it all comes down to cap hit and term.


Is he going to sign with the Flames as a 38 point center with great underlying metrics and an awesome FO%? Or will he sign with the Flames with cap and term expectant of a 4th liner?



The risk is that he put up those points due to opportunity with a low budget team with less depth. Cane fans are happy to see him leave. Why is that? Sure, you can't ever truly gauge a player's worth simply by fan perception, but a common perception among Cane fans is that Ryan was over-used in Carolina. I doubt (and should hope) that it wouldn't be the case here.


I am 100% on board with signing him, as long as he is paid like a 4th liner. You simply can not expect him to get anywhere near 38points again if he is utilized as a 10th forward.



I wholeheartedly agree that this team needs an improvement in their bottom 6, but I argue that improvement should come from downward pressure as the Flames upgrade their top 9, rather than take a 7/8th forward, pay him as such, and plop him into the 10th spot while expecting him perform as well with less offensive opportunity.


Do you know what I mean? I am not sure I am adequately expressing my reservations on this signing. If he comes cheap, then I not only have zero qualms about the signing, but welcome it ecstatically.



I am just damn tired of having one of the most expensive 4th lines in the league. That's not where cap should be spent.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

D. Ryan had the 8th most PP time off all Carolina forwards last year, and 9th most of all skaters. I would call that barely hanging in on the 2nd PP unit.

If you know that Ryan was 8th, you looked at the stats. Which means you know that there were 10 players in Carolina with 140+ minutes of PP TOI and that the 11th player had about 50 minutes. This is a really, really clear cut situation. Carolina obviously had 2 fairly steady PP units, and Ryan was on one of them.

Or to put it another way, you know that Ryan had 100 minutes more PP TOI than the guy closest to bumping him off the PP. To call that "barely hanging there" is twisting the facts to such a ludicrous amount it's mostly a reason to put on an ignore list, because clearly you cant' be trusted to not make blatant and easily detectable lie when it suits your narrative. That is not interpretation anymore.

Ryan wasn't "barely hanging in". He was a regular on their 2nd PP. This isn't a matter of debate.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Itse

If you know that Ryan was 8th, you looked at the stats. Which means you know that there were 10 players in Carolina with 140+ minutes of PP TOI and that the 11th player had about 50 minutes. This is a really, really clear cut situation. Carolina obviously had 2 fairly steady PP units, and Ryan was on one of them.

Or to put it another way, you know that Ryan had 100 minutes more PP TOI than the guy closest to bumping him off the PP. To call that "barely hanging there" is twisting the facts to such a ludicrous amount it's mostly a reason to put on an ignore list, because clearly you cant' be trusted to not make blatant and easily detectable lie when it suits your narrative.

Ryan wasn't "barely hanging in". He was a regular on their 2nd PP. This isn't a matter of debate.

lol

Awe muffin. You going to be OK?

Put me on ignore, like I give a ####.

He had the 2nd least amount of PP time among the 10 guys they used regularly on the PP.

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

I can't speak for everyone, but for me it all comes down to cap hit and term.


Is he going to sign with the Flames as a 38 point center with great underlying metrics and an awesome FO%? Or will he sign with the Flames with cap and term expectant of a 4th liner?



The risk is that he put up those points due to opportunity with a low budget team with less depth. Cane fans are happy to see him leave. Why is that? Sure, you can't ever truly gauge a player's worth simply by fan perception, but a common perception among Cane fans is that Ryan was over-used in Carolina. I doubt (and should hope) that it wouldn't be the case here.


I am 100% on board with signing him, as long as he is paid like a 4th liner. You simply can not expect him to get anywhere near 38points again if he is utilized as a 10th forward.



I wholeheartedly agree that this team needs an improvement in their bottom 6, but I argue that improvement should come from downward pressure as the Flames upgrade their top 9, rather than take a 7/8th forward, pay him as such, and plop him into the 10th spot while expecting him perform as well with less offensive opportunity.


Do you know what I mean? I am not sure I am adequately expressing my reservations on this signing. If he comes cheap, then I not only have zero qualms about the signing, but welcome it ecstatically.



I am just damn tired of having one of the most expensive 4th lines in the league. That's not where cap should be spent.

This exactly. The team needs a higher end player who can push others down

[mile]

I don't see Ryan as a 4th liner, I see him slotting in as the 3RW given the other centers we have, but will also take lots of draws and see some PP time. That's not a 4th liner.


I know a few posters are throwing 2.5mil as a possible cap hit for Ryan but I don't see it, if we're going by the general thought of 1mil/10 points. Anything less than 3.5mil I'd be happy with. 3 years is meh, 2 would be good.


I get what the Flames are trying to do, create four lines that can score like Vegas, rather than bring in just one big name forward and rely solely on that.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

lol

Awe muffin. You going to be OK?

Put me on ignore, like I give a ####.

He had the 2nd least amount of PP time among the 10 guys they used regularly on the PP.

He had the 3rd highest on the 2nd PP unit though. Which is much better than barely hanging on, he was a staple of that unit.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

lol

Awe muffin. You going to be OK?

Put me on ignore, like I give a ####.

He had the 2nd least amount of PP time among the 10 guys they used regularly on the PP.

Aww, cute. I see you're from the Trump school of argumentation. Tell a bad lie, when caught stick to your guns, try to belittle the people pointing out you just blatantly lied, generally act like facts and manners are somehow beneath you. I'm sure declare victory is next.

Too bad there's no election for you to win here.

Oh, and 8th out of 10 is not 2nd least. Numbers clearly not your strong suit.

[Wood]

Really guys? Is CP that much of a dumpster fire that even senior, usually intelligent, posters are going at it over Derek Ryan? This is so ridiculous lol

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Some of the comments in this thread are just bizarre. But I am going to focus on one set of comments: those referring him to a 4th liner, and comparing him to Brouwer or the kids that 'deserve a shot'.

Ryan had 38 points last year. To put that in perspective, that is more than Pacioretty, Kreider, Tuch, Coyle, Grabner, Saad and Neiderreiter, to name a few of the higher-end players people have been lobbying for.

38 points puts you in the TOP 6 forwards on 21 of the other 30 teams. Yes, 21.

38 points puts you in the top 6 for 9 of the 16 playoff teams last year.

On the Stanley Cup champion Capitals, he would have been 6th

There were only 7 teams on which Ryan and his 38 points wouldn't have been top 6. On the following teams, he would have been:

TOR: 9th
BOS, TB, WIN: 8th
NAS, PIT, VEG: 7th.

So that's top 9 on all 30 teams (31 including Carolina)

And people are talking about him like he's Matt Stajan. We had the least productive bottom 6 in the NHL last year (for whatever reasons). Adding Ryan to the bottom 6 is not something that you should be calling for Treliving's head over.

Great post. Just quoting because I mentioned Grabner. Grabner had 27(!) goals each of the last two years. Amazing he couldn't get more points than Ryan, but I guess he only shoots. I think Grabner is a cheapo contract but Ryan is obviously more useful.

[the2bears]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

Am I the only one wondering why Peters is allowed to comment on our interest in Ryan before July 1st?

Tampering is there to prevent intentional leaks (usually in the media) that alert a player to a team's interest. Since the teams can already talk to the players during this time there's no need to prevent any underhanded communication.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by mile

I don't see Ryan as a 4th liner, I see him slotting in as the 3RW given the other centers we have, but will also take lots of draws and see some PP time. That's not a 4th liner.


I know a few posters are throwing 2.5mil as a possible cap hit for Ryan but I don't see it, if we're going by the general thought of 1mil/10 points. Anything less than 3.5mil I'd be happy with. 3 years is meh, 2 would be good.


I get what the Flames are trying to do, create four lines that can score like Vegas, rather than bring in just one big name forward and rely solely on that.

I do recall Peters talking about how the roles on top to bottom lines were changing. If you can get 4 scoring lines and lots of speed you are going to wear other teams down. Do the Flames have the horses to do it. I think we will see a mix of skill and speed balanced through all 4 lines.

[cannon7]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

I am just damn tired of having one of the most expensive 4th lines in the league. That's not where cap should be spent.

Sadly the Flames are acting like this is going to be the big FA get.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Itse

Aww, cute. I see you're from the Trump school of argumentation. Tell a bad lie, when caught stick to your guns, try to belittle the people pointing out you just blatantly lied, generally act like facts and manners are somehow beneath you. I'm sure declare victory is next.

Too bad there's no election for you to win here.

Oh, and 8th out of 10 is not 2nd least. Numbers clearly not your strong suit.

lol shut up and put me on ignore.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Wood

Really guys? Is CP that much of a dumpster fire that even senior, usually intelligent, posters are going at it over Derek Ryan? This is so ridiculous lol

Can't remember anyone ever coming at me like that on here before, especially over something so trivial, but I won't be responding to him again. Not worth my time.

[ForeverFlameFan]

I can already sense the upcoming contention in this forum if Ryan were here to sign

Derek Ryan: The Future Whipping Boy

[Wood]

Originally Posted by cannon7

Sadly the Flames are acting like this is going to be the big FA get.

How are the Flames acting this way?

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

He had the 3rd highest on the 2nd PP unit though. Which is much better than barely hanging on, he was a staple of that unit.

So you are saying he was a staple on a top 10 power play?
OK then, I withdraw my previous opposition to this potential signing, assuming the price is right.

[Stay Golden]

Originally Posted by kukkudo

I maybe the minority here but I am tired of these signings for the bottom 6. Let the young guys finally take the ball and run with it. Year after year we see the same type of signing and it always fails.

This Peter's just step away from we are getting the band back together mentality and Treliving don't facilitate that move.

[Vox]

Originally Posted by Stay Golden

This Peter's just step away from we are getting the band back together mentality and Treliving don't facilitate that move.

Every legitimate source I have heard on the radio states that the trades with Carolina have nothing to do with Peters. This is consistent from Duhatschek to Treliving and even Peters himself. And this has been brought up over and over on the forums. I personally like the recent moves, but enjoy hearing the opinions of those that don't when those opinions are laid out in facts. There is lots of excellent discussion to be had in here when both sides can let go of the rhetoric.