[Trade] Elias Lindholm + Noah Hanifin to Flames for D. Hamilton, Micheal Ferland, & Adam Fox

[jonkaupp]

Originally Posted by FiveSeven

Has to be fun trying to dig up every ounce of evidence to conclude a negative stance.

The Flames just got better. Now and for the future.
If you don't see it that way, god help you.

Almost nobody who studies the game on a deep level agrees with this sillly stance

[Deegee]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Fox is the tipping point on this deal to many. Now that I hear about the likely issues in signing him, I’m not upset at him being included in this trade, in so much as I’m disappointed that a valuable prospect turned out to be not so valuable.

He might not even sign with Carolina.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by bigrangy

Lots of Oilers fans in here thinking the Flames won the trade because they got the guys who were higher picks

Draft position does not matter this far down the line.

I'd be lying if I said I watched many Carolina games last year but by all accounts, today's Lindholm is marginally better than today's Ferland at best.

Hamilton is miles better than Hanifin is today.

Yes the Flames got the better contracts, but the hockey ability of the team has been lessened as a result of this trade.

Maybe Hamilton is a locker room cancer and the team improves from his subtraction but the value should have still been better.

I think that this whole post is wrong.


Ferland wishes that he had the toolkit that Lindholm has. Ferland isn't as good without the puck, he doesn't have the same level of puck control. Ferlands skills are his fists and his shot. When he was on his game Ferland was good, when he was off his game he was invisible. He can't skate as well as Lindholm or stick handle in traffic or pass as well as Lindholm. As well, Lindholm is a younger.



I know that people are going to miss Ferland I am too, but suddenly the guy that most people weren't happy with at the end of last year is now a player capable of climbing Mount Olympus and hockeying the gods.



With Lindholm we got a potential core player, something that Ferland was never going to be. With Lindholm we got a true top 6 capable player with decent defensive awareness. That wasn't Ferland.


Noah Hanifin is 21 years old, He's a tremendous skater and stick handler with a good outlet pass. I doubt he'll ever be quite as good as Hamilton is offensively, I don't think he's got that vision, but at the same time Hamilton in his 21 year old season playing with Chara scored 10 goals the same as Hanifin did in his 21 year old season. Dougie had 32 assists to Hanifin 22 assists, but look at that Boston team. And of course Hamilton is miles better today, though I think that's an exaggeration, he's had nearly 4 more years of development.


I think you hate the deal and that's fine, its a free country, but you're trying to sell it as bad, and you're selling it so hard that you're making fantastical claims like Lindholm is marginally better.


Is this a great trade? Nope, but its a hockey trade in a sense that makes sense for the Flames. And if Treliving's interview is to be interpreted, this was about getting an element out of the dressing room and kicking the dressing rooms culture in the a$$.


As for Fox, he didn't want to play here so frack him, and College Prospects don't have that amazing value, especially ones that are heading back to school and are suspect as far as signing.

[jonkaupp]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

Hamilton is not miles better than Hannifin.

Lindholm is miles better than Ferland.

Hamilton is absolutely, factually, miles better than Hanifin, now and at similar stages in their respective careers.

Lindholm is better than Ferland but it’s not even close to closing up the prior chasm, without even considering Fox

[FiveSeven]

Originally Posted by jonkaupp

Almost nobody who studies the game on a deep level agrees with this sillly stance

So you don't think the Flames are a better team because of this trade?
If not, why?

[jonkaupp]

Originally Posted by FiveSeven

So you don't think the Flames are a better team because of this trade?
If not, why?

Ya, not even close. Significant downgrade. Terrible trade.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by useyourhead
I know on first-hand authority that Bennett is not taking his off season training seriously... Expect a similar season from him if he stays.

Honestly when people post stuff like this I think they should have to back it up or GFO

[Boreal]

Originally Posted by jonkaupp

Ya, not even close. Significant downgrade. Terrible trade.

You never stated why.

[savemedrzaius]

I think it is a great trade for you. The only thing I didnt know was they are both RFAs.

What are you guys expecting their contracts to be?

[mikephoen]

Originally Posted by jonkaupp

Almost nobody who studies the game on a deep level agrees with this sillly stance

What does your 'studying of the game on a deep level' entail?

[Boreal]

Decent comparison between Lindholm and O’Reilly.

https://www.habseyesontheprize.com/a...-options-draft

[jonkaupp]

Originally Posted by FiveSeven

So you don't think the Flames are a better team because of this trade?
If not, why?

I guess I didn’t answer why. They traded by far the best player in the deal that was locked up on a great deal and got back a LH D RFA who likely can’t take the formers spot so now we have to pray that the Brodie we’ve seen is an aberration of awfulness and not his true self. Meanwhile up front we traded an inconsistent winger for..... an inconsistent winger. And ah hell, let’s through one of our best prospects in the deal for ####s. Terrible

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by mikephoen

What does your 'studying of the game on a deep level' entail?

Reading the hockey news while buying a slurpee and perusing the interwebz like the rest of us?

[jonkaupp]

Originally Posted by mikephoen

What does your 'studying of the game on a deep level' entail?

Literally anybody who is paid by fantastic publications like the Athletic (and literally any home grown blog that is heavily analytics based) believes we got absolutely fleeced. And I agree with them.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by jonkaupp

I guess I didn’t answer why. They traded by far the best player in the deal that was locked up on a great deal and got back a LH D RFA who likely can’t take the formers spot so now we have to pray that the Brodie we’ve seen is an aberration of awfulness and not his true self. Meanwhile up front we traded an inconsistent winger for..... an inconsistent winger. And ah hell, let’s through one of our best prospects in the deal for ####s. Terrible

You can't call a player that was going to sign here our best prospect. He wasn't a prospect anymore, he was a trade part and probably wouldn't have garnered as much as people think.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by BigJim

Something that I'm wondering about is the statement that the Flames have been looking to move Hamilton for some time now, at least over the last year. If that's true, and this trade is, presumably, the best that BT could get, what does that say about Hamilton's true value? Some seem to feel that he should have commanded a bigger return, so something doesn't seem right here. I personally don't believe that Treliving wasn't thorough in gauging interest for Dougie league-wide before making this deal.

Yeah, if it's true Hamilton has been available for over a year, then there's no reason to think there were better deals out there available to Treliving. Safe to say teams made offers, but nothing of this calibre.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by jonkaupp

I guess I didn’t answer why. They traded by far the best player in the deal that was locked up on a great deal and got back a LH D RFA who likely can’t take the formers spot so now we have to pray that the Brodie we’ve seen is an aberration of awfulness and not his true self. Meanwhile up front we traded an inconsistent winger for..... an inconsistent winger. And ah hell, let’s through one of our best prospects in the deal for ####s. Terrible

Wow. This has to be one of the shallowest "deep dives" I have read on this forum. I was expecting something esoteric to make the likes of Bingo, GrantedEV or CorsiHockeyLeague blush, and all this amounts to is, "because points!"

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by jonkaupp

Literally anybody who is paid by fantastic publications like the Athletic (and literally any home grown blog that is heavily analytics based) believes we got absolutely fleeced. And I agree with them.

I've seen some home grown blogs and some reporters that think this was a decent trade for the Flames.


And again, listen to the interview by Treliving, there's no advanced Stat out there that can show that Dougie was a cultural problem, but that seems to be the direction this trade was going.

[jonkaupp]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

You can't call a player that was going to sign here our best prospect. He wasn't a prospect anymore, he was a trade part and probably wouldn't have garnered as much as people think.

Sure, you may be right. Nobody knows if you’re right but perhaps you are. Regardless, it’s a lopsided trade before he’s even involved so why throw him in?

And FWIW I didn’t say he was our best prospect. I just said he was a blue chip prospect, which is what I believe him to be regardless of whether he would sign here or not (something you nor I know the answer to)

[blender]

Originally Posted by jonkaupp

Literally anybody who is paid by fantastic publications like the Athletic (and literally any home grown blog that is heavily analytics based) believes we got absolutely fleeced. And I agree with them.

Link it up. I'd like to see it.