[Rumour] Lebrun: CGY & CAR talked about Lindholm trade that could involve Hamilton and Hanifin

[Nelson]

Originally Posted by Royle9

The main narrative here is that something is wrong in Dougie land w/ Calgary based on ALL the smoke in the media. We've heard rumblings of this ever since his brother was let go and even into the previous year.

Again, we all know how well Dougie played this year and nobody is taking that away from him. However given the smoke I think some of you may need to get your life vests out and realize your Hamilton boat may be sinking.

It's starting to sound like there's a very good chance he wont be on the Flames next season, so rather then get upset at posters who are trying to come up with some idea's for what they'd like to see Calgary get back given a Hamilton trade, think about it yourself and start preparing for a post Dougie Flames roster. The constant bickering of HOW good Hamilton is is running dry, we've heard it 1000x times now and have seen it for ourselves. He's a great top 2 D man on the Flames, but it sounds like there's underlying issues here that the Flames see as a problem and so his name is out there as available.

Deep breaths everyone, trading Hamilton for other assets wont single handily make or break the Flames season, some of you seem to act as if Dougie's the glue to the entire roster and sadly it couldn't be further from the truth.

I’m definitely willing to listen. What specifically does Dougie do to erode team chemistry? I understand the “Hamilton would bring back a huge return in other places where the Flames have dire need” argument and the “Hamilton isn’t physical enough and takes dumb penalties” argument. But Hamilton seems to be a fun and charitable guy. He does the Dougie-bombs. He organizes the Children's Hospital visits.

Also, Hamilton has not had one good year. Over the past four seasons, he has been awesome.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Drunk Uncle

According to Natural Stat Trick Lindholm's 1.46 PT/60 (5v5) was the 8th best among Carolina's forwards last year. For perspective Bennett and Jankowski were both 1.41 and the 7th/8th best on the Flames.

Kind of crazy they managed that with Hathaway scoring only four goals. Just replacing Hathaway with a guy like Frolik, and perhaps switching center roles (IMO Bennett has shown to be more defensively sound at the position than Jankowski and more able to transition out of the defensive zone) and I think they could really break out.

On the other hand, the huge gap between those two and Lindholm in actual points shows how much things like power play usage and ice time influence perception.

[Flames_F.T.W]

While I think Lindholm and Hannifin would be solid (if not spectacular) value, the more I think about it, the less I'm satisfied. We don't need to move Hamilton. I think if he gets moved, it should be for nothing less than a young star player... not players who haven't reached their potential (ie: Lindholm and Hannifin). Players along the lines of Stone, Marner, Panarin etc.. If Lindholm and Hannifin fail to improve, the trade is essentially quality (Hamilton) for quantity (depth pieces). Too much risk for letting go of a 25 year old top pairing RHD-- which is among the hardest commodities to come by

[Royle9]

Originally Posted by Nelson

I’m definitely willing to listen. What specifically does Dougie do to erode team chemistry? I understand the “Hamilton would bring back a huge return in other places where the Flames have dire need” argument and the “Hamilton isn’t physical enough and takes dumb penalties” argument. But Hamilton seems to be a fun and charitable guy. He does the Dougie-bombs. He organizes the Children's Hospital visits.

Also, Hamilton has not had one good year. Over the past four seasons, he has been awesome.

That's the thing, NONE of us know what "Dougie does behind closed doors" but apparently the Flames see him as the one "core" piece they are willing to trade or at least listen to offers on more intently than the others.

So there has to be something underlying to insinuate that the Flames feel they are willing to give up on him more so than a bunch of posters here want to admit.

Other posters have highlighted some things that may or may not impact the way the Flames view Dougie as a person (Exit interview decline, refusing to talk to the media, not getting invited to world championships when clearly he would have been a top 2 D on any of those teams). I mean maybe its just coincidence because none of us can corroborate the facts, but you have to think there's more to it based on the constant media attention even most recently, coupled with Trelivings firm statement that the core will experience a shakeup.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Flames_F.T.W

While I think Lindholm and Hannifin would be solid (if not spectacular) value, the more I think about it, the less I'm satisfied. We don't need to move Hamilton. I think if he gets moved, it should be for nothing less than a young star player... not players who haven't reached their potential (ie: Lindholm and Hannifin). Players along the lines of Stone, Marner, Panarin etc.. If Lindholm and Hannifin fail to improve, the trade is essentially quality (Hamilton) for quantity (depth pieces). Too much risk for letting go of a 25 year old top pairing RHD-- which is among the hardest commodities to come by

I agree it is an extremely risky trade. I think it could be a huge win or a huge loss for Calgary. Hanifin has 30pts last year and is a year younger than Dougie was when he was traded to Calgary (21 coming off 42pts vs 20 coming off 30). Hanifin could be ready to breakout and if he is a solid top 4D for Calgary next year that is exciting. He would definitely make it easier to move one of our top 4 D prospects for forward help.

Lindholm would need to take a step forward which is reasonable to consider since he is 23 and Swedes can take time to hit their offensive stride.


Conroy made comments on the fan yesterday about building a long term contender in Calgary. This move makes some sense based on the fact we would be trading a 25 year old for 2 younger players.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by Royle9

That's the thing, NONE of us know what "Dougie does behind closed doors" but apparently the Flames see him as the one "core" piece they are willing to trade or at least listen to offers on more intently than the others.

So there has to be something underlying to insinuate that the Flames feel they are willing to give up on him more so than a bunch of posters here want to admit.

Other posters have highlighted some things that may or may not impact the way the Flames view Dougie as a person (Exit interview decline, refusing to talk to the media, not getting invited to world championships when clearly he would have been a top 2 D on any of those teams). I mean maybe its just coincidence because none of us can corroborate the facts, but you have to think there's more to it based on the constant media attention even most recently, coupled with Trelivings firm statement that the core will experience a shakeup.

Sounds like an uppity loner to me.

[djsFlames]

I'd rather we shoot higher than lindholm for forward help. If they are doing so but also see opportunity to swoop in and get a young 2C then i have no issue witb that. And Hamilton is better than hanifin right now, though hanifin is younger and does have a crazy high ceiling. But Dougie is one of the top dmen right now and still young. Don't fully see the point in that. Cue the mystery box thing.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by Flames_F.T.W

While I think Lindholm and Hannifin would be solid (if not spectacular) value, the more I think about it, the less I'm satisfied. We don't need to move Hamilton. I think if he gets moved, it should be for nothing less than a young star player... not players who haven't reached their potential (ie: Lindholm and Hannifin). Players along the lines of Stone, Marner, Panarin etc.. If Lindholm and Hannifin fail to improve, the trade is essentially quality (Hamilton) for quantity (depth pieces). Too much risk for letting go of a 25 year old top pairing RHD-- which is among the hardest commodities to come by

I agree with this, I think at this point we need to look at star players not reclamation, not diamonds in the rough, nor just potential. I think there comes a point where we need to focus on established proven players. This especially considering all the projects we tried last couple of seasons including the coaching staff, didn't work out.

If we trade Hamilton, it should be for a home run nothing less.

[Scroopy Noopers]

I’m coming around on the idea that something about Hamilton doesn’t pass the smell test.

He’s an amazing player, and there is no on ice reason to move him from the team. If he does get moved I’m going to take that as confirmation there is something under the surface on a personal/teammate level.

[Drunk Uncle]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Kind of crazy they managed that with Hathaway scoring only four goals. Just replacing Hathaway with a guy like Frolik, and perhaps switching center roles (IMO Bennett has shown to be more defensively sound at the position than Jankowski and more able to transition out of the defensive zone) and I think they could really break out.

On the other hand, the huge gap between those two and Lindholm in actual points shows how much things like power play usage and ice time influence perception.

We agree on that. PP time has a large effect on actual point totals. It's why I like to look at 5v5 PT/60 to try and gauge how effective the player is.

Hathaway was an anchor last year on that line both statistically (1.18 PT/60 5V5) and by the eye test.

To me Hathaway's RW spot is the hinge position to improve for the Flames to have success next year. If our roster includes a top 6 player in Hathaway's old position, we are a much much deeper team with a lot more options for line combinations. I think in that scenario you see Bennett and Jankowski improve 5v5. If they get PP time as well, we are talking about them breaking at the end of next year. If we only manage to acquire a top 9 guy we will be improved to a lesser degree but should still have stellar defense in that scenario.

[dino7c]

I wouldn't read too much into the WC...some guys just aren't interested and the GMs know this. For all we know he declined or told them beforehand not to bother.

[Toonage]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

I’m coming around on the idea that something about Hamilton doesn’t pass the smell test.

He’s an amazing player, and there is no on ice reason to move him from the team. If he does get moved I’m going to take that as confirmation there is something under the surface on a personal/teammate level.

I honestly believe that management just doesn't like the competitive drive they see from him off the ice and that probably limits what they think he can ultimately achieve on the ice. They want players that hate to lose, and are fiercely competitive. My guess (again this all just guesswork) is that Hamilton just doesn't exhibit that same drive to win that they want.

Is that a bad way to look at it? Absolutely. He doesn't hamper the team, is well liked (by all accounts) and puts up points. But he probably doesn't show his emotions, and if you couple that with an apparent unwillingness to speak with media or even his bosses (if he did in fact opt out of the year end interview) then they're souring on Dougie the person and not so much Dougie the player. Which is equally hard to believe.

Just a weird situation that might be developing.

[Badgers Nose]

Is this Hamilton stuff like the stuff that plagued Joe Thornton early on?

It turned out if wasn't true, but Boston still won a cup after the trade.

I still like this trade idea with the Canes. I think Flames would get quality and quantity. We probably have to add something.

[Ashasx]

I’m coming around on the idea that something about Hall doesn’t pass the smell test.

He’s an amazing player, and there is no on ice reason to move him from the team. If he does get moved I’m going to take that as confirmation there is something under the surface on a personal/teammate level.

[I_H8_Crawford]

Originally Posted by Royle9

Deep breaths everyone, trading Hamilton for other assets wont single handily make or break the Flames season, some of you seem to act as if Dougie's the glue to the entire roster and sadly it couldn't be further from the truth.

The last time the Flames traded their young D-man who was their biggest trading chip, it didn't only break their season, it broke the Flames for YEARS.

I understand why a lot of people get nervous - we are used to seeing the Flames trade their best assets for garbage because that is all that has happened with this team before.

Genuinely curious - have the Flames "won" ANY trades where they traded the best player in the deal?

Gilmour - NOPE
Savard - NOPE
Phaneuf - NOPE
Iginla - NOPE
Bouwmeester - NOPE
Regehr - NOPE

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

I’m coming around on the idea that something about Hall doesn’t pass the smell test.

He’s an amazing player, and there is no on ice reason to move him from the team. If he does get moved I’m going to take that as confirmation there is something under the surface on a personal/teammate level.

Alright.

[GranteedEV]

I don't think Hamilton is at all an issue internally. I do however think that his trade value is greater than his value to the team winning. Ultimately beyond that, while there are times where his lack of hustle has directly cost the team, I don't think the Flames see him as an addition by subtraction should he be on the market - which we're not clear he actually is as this rumour may not be anything more than Tre kicking the tires as he always does.

[DazzlinDino]

I think it is unfair to make a lot of assumptions about the Flames assessment of Hamilton. For all we know the Flames have been kicking tires on a lot of different players. Once we get a hold of rumor a lot of assumptions get thrown out there and what the player or management is thinking. Chances are the Flames are just kicking tires and this is one of those that got out into the media.

[Royle9]

Originally Posted by I_H8_Crawford

The last time the Flames traded their young D-man who was their biggest trading chip, it didn't only break their season, it broke the Flames for YEARS.

I understand why a lot of people get nervous - we are used to seeing the Flames trade their best assets for garbage because that is all that has happened with this team before.

So we don't trade him for garbage?
I dont think anyone has come out and said they want to Trade Dougie for anything less than a win.

The only trade scenario mentioned to date that people seem to be upset about is the one in this thread and personally I feel this trade wouldn't be too bad as it addresses a pretty big need.

Hannifin is a younger Dougie basically, playing on a team that was worse out of the gates (never really in the playoff hunt) and playing 2nd pairing minutes for most of the season.

Noah - 18:53 avg TOI - 4th on D time
Doug - 21:32 avg TOI - 3rd on D time

Lindholm would be tied for 4th in points on the Flames with a chance to play on a line with Sean and Johnny who helped Ferland to his first 20g season since junior. I could see Lindholm flourishing on a line with the two of them, plus gives us a RHS on the powerplay no named Brouwer which we desperately need.

So I'd take that deal myself but I'm not Brad

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

I’m coming around on the idea that something about Hall doesn’t pass the smell test.

He’s an amazing player, and there is no on ice reason to move him from the team. If he does get moved I’m going to take that as confirmation there is something under the surface on a personal/teammate level.

The difference being that, if Hamilton moves, that would be both the Flames and the Bruins moving on from him (two franchises that aren’t a tire fire).

You’re comparing that to the Oilers, of all teams, moving Hall and him immediately finding success and a home on his second team.

Swing and a miss.