2018 Tennis Thread

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

If he gets the majors record by winning 15 at the French and 6 everywhere else combined, do people call him the greatest ever at Tennis, or does it just go towards being the greatest ever on clay?

[Senator Clay Davis]

Outside Nadal fans, no one will consider him the greatest if I can take away one tournament and his total is in the single digits. If you take Wimbledon away from Federer he's still at 11, and is the only player who you can say that about (take winningest major event away, still double digit major wins). But Nadal at Roland Garros is the most dominant thing in sports ever, so they can always have that at least.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Yeah, I think he'd probably have to win at least 3 more on non-clay surfaces and also get past 20 to get to where it's a tough call. Which also assumes that Roger doesn't win a couple more in the meantime before calling it a career.

[Nadal Fan]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Yeah, I think he'd probably have to win at least 3 more on non-clay surfaces and also get past 20 to get to where it's a tough call. Which also assumes that Roger doesn't win a couple more in the meantime before calling it a career.

Thats the toughest part for Nadal at the moment is that he wins a grand slam and closes the gap to 3 titles and then boom Roger wins again and its back at 4. The only way Nadal can catch Federer is if Federer stops winning. Plus who knows if Djokovic will ever get back to his top form but if he does, it's going to be a lot tougher to win majors again. Plus Murray is coming back who knows how long it will take for him to get back to his best, throw in Shapo, Zverev, Thiem as well and winning a major gets harder every year.

The GOAT debate is useless, Tennis isn't a uniform sport. There are several surfaces which players play on (Grass,Clay,Hard Court, Carpet, Indoors) and no one player is the best at all them. It would be like if in the NHL they played 40 games on Ice, 20 on roller blades and 20 with shoes. Would Wayne Gretzky still be considered the best?

We all have our favorites just enjoy them while there playing and leave all the debates until when all are retired, because it will come sooner than we all think and then we will miss them.

[Strange Brew]

I think the different surfaces makes the GOAT debate so interesting. Golf is played on different surfaces/courses too.

Regardless of who you believe is the best, the most career majors is most certainly a major, major benchmark. Even if they all come at the same place.

I think Federer is going to need to win at least one more. Maybe two.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by Nadal Fan

The GOAT debate is useless, Tennis isn't a uniform sport. There are several surfaces which players play on (Grass,Clay,Hard Court, Carpet, Indoors) and no one player is the best at all them. It would be like if in the NHL they played 40 games on Ice, 20 on roller blades and 20 with shoes. Would Wayne Gretzky still be considered the best?

If he was still clearly the best player ever on ice and on roller blades, while being probably the second best ever on shoes, then yes.

[Senator Clay Davis]

It's funny cause to me the only real GOAT question is should it be Roger and Rafa, or Roger and Novak. Novak's peak is definitely greater and lasted far longer than Rafa's. Rafa never got into that "You think he's gonna win regardless of situation" place for very long (outside clay), if at all. Roger and Novak both did it for multiple seasons.

[Hot_Flatus]

Denis getting underway at the Stuttgart Open in a few minutes. Very winnable match against an unheralded player out of India before eventually squaring off with Roger, should he make it that far with what you'd assume to be a fair bit of rust.

Milos has a fantastic draw in this event and starts play against Mirza Basic early tomorrow morning. I think this draw could see him coast to the finals on the back of his serve and volley game provided he isn't overly rusty either. The only concern is Berdych who has been playing great.

[Nadal Fan]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

It's funny cause to me the only real GOAT question is should it be Roger and Rafa, or Roger and Novak. Novak's peak is definitely greater and lasted far longer than Rafa's. Rafa never got into that "You think he's gonna win regardless of situation" place for very long (outside clay), if at all. Roger and Novak both did it for multiple seasons.

I think in the all time great list, Sampras is still ahead of Djoker. More Grand Slams, more weeks #1, and more Y.E #1 finishes. I know he doesn't have any French Open titles but he beats him in all the above.

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by Nadal Fan

I think in the all time great list, Sampras is still ahead of Djoker. More Grand Slams, more weeks #1, and more Y.E #1 finishes. I know he doesn't have any French Open titles but he beats him in all the above.

Yeah that's a tough call. For me, the fact that Djokovic actually has more titles, despite two less major trophies, during a time in which he was forced to consistently beat two legends of the sport, puts him ahead of Pete on my list.

[Senator Clay Davis]

They also mentioned this on the broadcast, but yesterday was only the fourth time ever that Nadal was the #1 seed at Roland Garros. That's a pretty damning stat against his GOAT claim, an event he thoroughly owns more than anyone has ever owned anything, and he's only been the #1 seed four times? There's no dispute about Rafa and clay, and that's actually more than you can say about even Roger and grass. But for the most part the Rafa claim to being GOAT is about the head to head, which is a pretty weak argument.

[dash_pinched]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1006209324002078721

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

There's no dispute about Rafa and clay, and that's actually more than you can say about even Roger and grass.

Who the heck are you putting potentially ahead of Roger as a grass court player?

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Who the heck are you putting potentially ahead of Roger as a grass court player?

That Sampras guy was alright wasn't he? Not that I'm saying he's better, but if they played 10 matches I think you could realistically give Pete 4 wins. McEnroe and Bjorg were also excellent grass players, and even Novak deserves consideration if it's Prime Federer against Prime Novak. Prime Novak is why Federer isn't at his own decima, with the record totally locked up.

Against Rafa on clay, Bjorg is the only guy you'd give consider giving 1 win out of 10, and you probably wouldn't even give him that much more, 2 at the absolute most. There's no one Rafa wouldn't be the overwhelming favorite against. Can't say the same for Fed on grass. Doesn't change Fed being the better all court player than Nadal, just Nadal is more dominant on his best than Federer on his best.

[bigtmac19]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

Denis getting underway at the Stuttgart Open in a few minutes. Very winnable match against an unheralded player out of India before eventually squaring off with Roger, should he make it that far with what you'd assume to be a fair bit of rust.

Milos has a fantastic draw in this event and starts play against Mirza Basic early tomorrow morning. I think this draw could see him coast to the finals on the back of his serve and volley game provided he isn't overly rusty either. The only concern is Berdych who has been playing great.

?? According to the schedule online it says Shapovalov plays tomorrow morning? Did some matches get delayed?

[dash_pinched]

Originally Posted by bigtmac19

?? According to the schedule online it says Shapovalov plays tomorrow morning? Did some matches get delayed?

Yes due to rain in Stuttgart.

Edit: Shapo, Milos, and Vasek all in action tomorrow (weather permitting).

https://twitter.com/user/status/1006229023662342145

[dash_pinched]

Hawkeye on every court at the US Open starting this year...

https://twitter.com/user/status/1006170610119127040

[spiteface]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

They also mentioned this on the broadcast, but yesterday was only the fourth time ever that Nadal was the #1 seed at Roland Garros. That's a pretty damning stat against his GOAT claim, an event he thoroughly owns more than anyone has ever owned anything, and he's only been the #1 seed four times? There's no dispute about Rafa and clay, and that's actually more than you can say about even Roger and grass. But for the most part the Rafa claim to being GOAT is about the head to head, which is a pretty weak argument.

He was seeded #1 four times due to the fact that he has suffered the most time off out of all the "big four" players on tour prior to last year. Don't forget he has ended as year-end world #1 four times. The argument that he can't even be seeded #1 at RG is senseless and baseless... it's grasping for straws. And then you say the H2H argument is weak..?? It definitely is not gonna give Rafa the edge now but if he catches Roger's 20, you and I both know that stat will tip the scale in Rafa's favor.

Roger has 11 slams on hard courts, so take those away and you're left with what.. 9 slams with only 1 on clay, there is definitely no variety in that statistic. Further to that, 2 of the 4 grand slams a year are being held on hard courts. What would Roger fans be saying if there were 2 clay grand slams per year?

The GOAT debate is without a doubt between Roger and Rafa, and at the moment Roger is the GOAT, but if Rafa were to catch him and surpass him regardless of where he does that, Rafa will be just as deserving as the title as Roger.

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by spiteface

He was seeded #1 four times due to the fact that he has suffered the most time off out of all the "big four" players on tour prior to last year. Don't forget he has ended as year-end world #1 four times. The argument that he can't even be seeded #1 at RG is senseless and baseless... it's grasping for straws. And then you say the H2H argument is weak..?? It definitely is not gonna give Rafa the edge now but if he catches Roger's 20, you and I both know that stat will tip the scale in Rafa's favor.

Roger has 11 slams on hard courts, so take those away and you're left with what.. 9 slams with only 1 on clay, there is definitely no variety in that statistic. Further to that, 2 of the 4 grand slams a year are being held on hard courts. What would Roger fans be saying if there were 2 clay grand slams per year?

The GOAT debate is without a doubt between Roger and Rafa, and at the moment Roger is the GOAT, but if Rafa were to catch him and surpass him regardless of where he does that, Rafa will be just as deserving as the title as Roger.

Help us all if the ATP ever pushes for more clay court events.....no thanks. There's a reason there are so many hard court events on the calendar and that is simply because it provides for the best, most consistent level of play across the board. After a month of clay I'm counting the days until it is done each and every year.

Even if Rafa hits 20 slams and Roger retires tomorrow, there are still many asterisks, that for me, would disqualify him for the greatest of all time claim.

For starters, Rogers run from 2004-2006 where he basically won everything (90%+ win rate) will never be touched again in any sport. The fact that he's also made 30 slam finals, winning 20 of them is down right insane....Even when he wasn't winning the big titles for a couple years, he was still dominant against the likes of Rafa, Djokovic, Murray, Stan etc. Rafa has also spent 177 weeks at number 1 compared to staggering 309 (or nearly a cumulative 6 years) by Roger.

I don't intend to beat down on Rafa here as he is very deserved of being in the conversation, but for me, Roger has just been far more dominant across the entire ATP calendar, year after year after year. The fact he pre-dates many of the current greats and is still beating them just goes to further reinforce his dominance on the sport. If both had not overlapped their careers, imagine the insane numbers we'd be looking at on both parts. Maybe 25 slams a piece?

[dash_pinched]

Toronto to host the Davis Cup tie between Canada and the Netherlands:

https://twitter.com/user/status/1006538068738764800