Building The 2018/19 Flames Roster

[GranteedEV]

Kulak outplayed Stone all year. If Gulutzan had a meritocracy the minute distribution would have reflected that.

Honestly I am unconvinced Hamonic is even better than Kulak. Kulak's gap control, first pass, defensive stick and patience are all reflective of the kind of player that ends up becoming a Nate Schmidt or Michal Kempny with actual opportunity. He was a rock for us last year in every regard except offense, and even there he was no worse than Stone or Hamonic.

Calling him a 7th Dman is well off the mark. He carried his pair at ES and in limited minutes showed he should have had more PK ice time as well. He's closer to deserving to be our #4 than being healthy scratched ever again by merit.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by RoughRiderRowdy

Cant believe posters are saying they wouldnt want vanek. Outsife of johnny and mony, we have one of the worst forward groups in the entire nhl. Vanek would automatically be our first line RW.

I can't believe the number of posters that use counting stats and counting stats only when assembling off season roster wish lists

[simonarea]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

I don't necessarily disagree with the overall opinion (of dealing from a position of 'strength' to fill a position of concern), but I think comparing a bonafide NHL defender in Stone to a fringe NHL player in Kulak is nonsense.

There's never going to be a question on who to scratch between the two.

Kulak is the protypical stopgap, 7th defensemen, injury replacement defender. Once Anderson does prove himself, there's no issue sending him up to the pressbox.

With that said, there's no point in trying to move him because no team is going to give much for him while Stone might actually get you some help upfront.

Totally agree
He can easily be replaced. I’m not sure why he’s so overrated. He is too soft and weak....
Alex Petrovic is available!!!!

[Bingo]

Treliving needs to assess three things with his new coaching staff and particularly Peters.

1. Is he married to the left righty thing.
2. Does he want the top four returned from last year or does he need change it up?
3. Does he want room made for the likes of Andersson and Valimaki and if so what is his timing?

My assumptions are "if possible", "no", and then I'm not sure

I'd also assume they won't move from Hamonic this quickly so Brodie is the most likely guy to be traded. If that's the case it opens up either a left spot for Kulak to move up or Valimaki to challenge or for an offside option with either Stone or Andersson.

If they want it more clear they can certainly move Brodie and Stone and then have Andersson pencilled in.

I've always maintained that if the gains from adding a forward (lets say Nino Niederreiter) are greater in the trickle down effect than the loss of Brodie to say a Kulak, Valimaki or Andersson/Stone on their off side you go for it.

The Flames have young guys coming, and if they have to sacrifice uncertainty on the blueline to fix things up front so be it.

[FireFly]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I can't believe the number of posters that use counting stats and counting stats only when assembling off season roster wish lists

As opposed to doing a deep dive and using advanced stats to determine whether or not they have bad luck?

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by FireFly

As opposed to doing a deep dive and using advanced stats to determine whether or not they have bad luck?

‘You're dumb cuz I don't understand what you're doing, huh huh huh!’

[Nelson]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I can't believe the number of posters that use counting stats and counting stats only when assembling off season roster wish lists

Vanek plays against below average competition and gets heavy offensive zone starts and still has a negative effect on possession most of the time.

However, despite that, Vanek continues to score at a clip of 49.25 points per season over the last four seasons. Why is this? I think it's his shot. He has a career 14.3% shooting percentage.

Overall, you're not going to rely on Vanek to drive play. He cannot do that. However, if he joins a pair of players that already drives play in the right direction, he could easily add some offense.

For example, the 3M line drives play extremely well but sometimes struggles to actually score goals. I think it might work well to do this:

Gaudreau - Monahan - Tkachuk
Frolik - Backlund - Vanek
Bennett - Jankowski - Ferland
LW - Shore - RW

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by FireFly

As opposed to doing a deep dive and using advanced stats to determine whether or not they have bad luck?

Insult me all you want.

Hockey is more than goals and assists, his recent bounce around the circuit and then choosing a hockey team with zero chances of making the playoffs tells you how in demand this rock star was.

[FireFly]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Insult me all you want.

Hockey is more than goals and assists, his recent bounce around the circuit and then choosing a hockey team with zero chances of making the playoffs tells you how in demand this rock star was.

It wasn’t an insult actually. I’m not talking about any particular player, I’m talking about how advanced stats still don’t tell the whole story. You can look at all the Corsi and fenwick and whatever you want but the real keys are things not found on paper or in calculators.

[Samonadreau]

Originally Posted by Nelson

Vanek plays against below average competition and gets heavy offensive zone starts and still has a negative effect on possession most of the time.

However, despite that, Vanek continues to score at a clip of 49.25 points per season over the last four seasons. Why is this? I think it's his shot. He has a career 14.3% shooting percentage.

Overall, you're not going to rely on Vanek to drive play. He cannot do that. However, if he joins a pair of players that already drives play in the right direction, he could easily add some offense.

For example, the 3M line drives play extremely well but sometimes struggles to actually score goals. I think it might work well to do this:

Gaudreau - Monahan - Tkachuk
Frolik - Backlund - Vanek
Bennett - Jankowski - Ferland
LW - Shore - RW

You cripple our top shutdown line defensively by introducing Vanek to it. I understand where your coming from but this is not a good idea.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by FireFly

It wasn’t an insult actually. I’m not talking about any particular player, I’m talking about how advanced stats still don’t tell the whole story. You can look at all the Corsi and fenwick and whatever you want but the real keys are things not found on paper or in calculators.

When did anyone claim advanced stats tell the whole story?
Why do people continue to just make up opposing views that no one has actually ever stated?
#fakecalgarypuckopinions

[Nelson]

Originally Posted by Samonadreau

You cripple our top shutdown line defensively by introducing Vanek to it. I understand where your coming from but this is not a good idea.

You know what, you're probably right.

The more I think about it the more I think Bingo might be right. His possession numbers are horrid despite really, really favorable circumstances. I think this is a player the Flames look at if they need RWers after other options have gone elsewhere. I wouldn't definitely say no to Vanek because his shooting ability is redeeming.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by FireFly

It wasn’t an insult actually. I’m not talking about any particular player, I’m talking about how advanced stats still don’t tell the whole story. You can look at all the Corsi and fenwick and whatever you want but the real keys are things not found on paper or in calculators.

The real keys are usually not found at all since player value is so context-dependent.

[Hockeyguy15]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

When did anyone claim advanced stats tell the whole story?
Why do people continue to just make up opposing views that no one has actually ever stated?
#fakecalgarypuckopinions

You know, I think a lot of people need to learn to read posts carefully before they respond.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

This was not the intent of my post. I was merely pointing out that despite their awful finish it is likely that the Flames are much better than bottom-five in NHL scoring. With the same essential personnel the Flames have been considerably more productive in previous seasons, so I tend to think that their #27 finish in NHL scoring is an outlier. That is all.

Well I guess whether they are bottom 5 or just bad, I don't feel like there is much of a difference. They are not good at scoring.

The Ducks playoff series from last year was very telling. With time to game plan, the Flames 5 on 5 offense was shut down to the tune of 2 goals in 4+ games IIRC. And I don't recall luck being much of a factor.

So IMO there is ample evidence that the Flames are a bad offensive team. Changing nothing from last year, they are as likely to score fewer goals as they are to score more IMO.

Now fortunately they are changing some things. At a minimum, a new system will be put in place. What this organization is lacking more than anything else is another dynamic young scoring prospect. That is going to be hard to find.

[GioforPM]

I like Kulak a lot. But he is not better than Hamonic.

[spuzzum]

At the start of last season, Tre mentioned his greatest worry was scoring. That worry turned out correct and needs to be fixed this off season for the Flames to make it back to the promise land.

[SeanCharles]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Treliving needs to assess three things with his new coaching staff and particularly Peters.

1. Is he married to the left righty thing.
2. Does he want the top four returned from last year or does he need change it up?
3. Does he want room made for the likes of Andersson and Valimaki and if so what is his timing?

My assumptions are "if possible", "no", and then I'm not sure

I'd also assume they won't move from Hamonic this quickly so Brodie is the most likely guy to be traded. If that's the case it opens up either a left spot for Kulak to move up or Valimaki to challenge or for an offside option with either Stone or Andersson.

If they want it more clear they can certainly move Brodie and Stone and then have Andersson pencilled in.

I've always maintained that if the gains from adding a forward (lets say Nino Niederreiter) are greater in the trickle down effect than the loss of Brodie to say a Kulak, Valimaki or Andersson/Stone on their off side you go for it.

The Flames have young guys coming, and if they have to sacrifice uncertainty on the blueline to fix things up front so be it.

I'm of a similar mindset in that I believe if the Flames are looking to add a forward via trade the only assets that we can afford to move are on the backend.

- Gio/Hamilton (elite first pairing)
- Hamonic (physical top 4 defensive dman - unique to our group)
- Valamaki (top prospect with big upside and minimal question marks)
- Andersson (top end RHed offensive prospect that looks ready)
- Kylington (elite skills and has thrived in AHL at a young age)
- Fox (RHed with highend offensive skillset, fleeing as FA is unlikely but possible)
- Kulak (top 6, home grown and young enough that he may provide more)
- Brodie (top 4 guy but Valamaki looks like he could eventually replace him)
- Stone (top 4/5 RH guy with hard shot and grit but Andersson looks ready)

If I'm going to move any of these guys I would start at the bottom of the list and work my way up. There is a line of succession in place where Valamaki and Andersson should replace Brodie and Stone.

I'm a pretty big fan of the top 8 guys on the list and hope they are all with the organization until the Fox situation forces us to make a move. Truth be told I like all 10 but feel Brodie and Stone's skillsets are the easiest to replace from within, given the prospects we have stockpiled.

I truely believe, like Nashville and Anahiem have done in recent years, that we will churn out a handful of NHL dmen in a short period of time. We would be wise to take advantage of that and use the excess to get help in other areas.

[RoughRiderRowdy]

Basically what it comes down to is we need to trade defencemen for offensive scoring help. Really hoping janko, and bennett are training hard this summer

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by DJones

So Stone plays really well, has good value and we're in a playoff spot.

And then we trade him at the deadline to put in a rookie?

Either trade him now or keep him.

Yep. No way the Flames trade a performing veteran at the deadline if they are in the playoff mix, particularly one with term on their contract.

No teams do that.