It's hard to tell at this point if the disappointing box office is because Solo isn't a good movie, or because the Last Jedi poisoned the well. I know I came away from TLJ with the same attitude I came away from the second Hobbit movie: I'm out.
I'll watch Solo at some point in the next couple weeks, as I quite liked Rogue One and find the idea of standalone Star Wars movies more appealing than endless rehashes of the original trilogy. But we might be seeing more proof that a single bad movie (TLJ) can poison a franchise, even one as big as Star Wars.
I guess we'll find out when Episode IX opens.
I think IX opens to over 200 million again. I think that Solo failed because no one cared. There is no epic origin story like a super hero that is widely known to draw beats from so it lacks that nostalgia draw.
whatever the reasons for the low ticket sales (and there are a whole bunch that are all perfectly valid) it appears that they've somehow made the first money losing Star Wars film...4 movies into the Disney era. that's an accomplishment.
with Ocean's 8, Incredibles 2 and Jurassic World coming up in quick succession, that'll be the knockout punch for Solo. I had an ok time watching it, but I hope the message is now loud and clear...stop reminiscing and start creating again.
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Its actually a shame that its losing money like this, because its a really good movie and piece of Star Wars. But I tend to think that the GFFA took a hit with the prequels, and then a bigger hit with the sequel trilogy that hasn't been really strong. Rogue One was a different sort of Star Wars film though and because of that people were curious.
I do think that its a combination of things
1) Generally too many Star Wars movies have hit the market in rapid succession
2) The new Trilogy has been underwhelming, and overall the hardened Star Wars fans actually really hate the new vision of the GFFA (The books are really bad for example, video games when they do come out aren't great.) and they're probably staying away and entertaining themselves by re-reading the EU while watching the OT.
3) Rebooting a familiar character or rebooting his backstory. The first stand alone worked because it was new characters in a setting that people were curious about.
4) People I would guess are going to less movies in a year and making decisions between what they need to see in the theatre and what they're willing to wait to watch at home. You wanted to see Infinity Wars in the Theatre, but Solo, that can be a netflix and chill.
On an added note, I do believe Star Wars IX - Kylo gets sent to his room is going to be in real danger of suffering at the box office. Especially after the last film, and they're going to have to do something extra ordinary to get the buzz going on this one. Maybe a spoiler clip of Palpatine's ghost and Snokes ghost tag team wrestling Kenobi and Luke's ghost with Yoda as their manager.
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On an added note, I do believe Star Wars IX - Kylo gets sent to his room is going to be in real danger of suffering at the box office. Especially after the last film, and they're going to have to do something extra ordinary to get the buzz going on this one. Maybe a spoiler clip of Palpatine's ghost and Snokes ghost tag team wrestling Kenobi and Luke's ghost with Yoda as their manager.
if the trailer for Episode IX is just Rey waking up and realizing that everything from the moment she offered Luke his lightsaber was just a bad dream, I'm certain that will be enough to break Avatar's record.
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You can't say that the GFFA new trilogy is suffering when TFA did 2 billion. You don't get to 2 billion without repeat viewings. In NA it did 960 million and it led into strong openings for Rouge one and TLJ. Adjusted for inflation it's the 2nd biggest Star Wars movie. It will have out earned Infinity War by 250 million domestically without accounting for inflation. It's the biggest movie since Titanic despite being in the Netflix era.
Saying the new Trillogy wasn't well received is revisionist history.
Even TLJ's box office wasnt a disaster. It was the bottom end of expectations. The big question is does it affect the opening of IX and did in affect the opening of Solo? I think until we get that datapoint we don't know. Though I'm willing to bet you get a 200 million + open out of 9 and an out performance of TLJ.
It should have been in the regular Holiday spot that Star Wars has been releasing in - this was too close to TLJ. Plus you had Deadpool 2, Avengers, and the start of the rest of the summer blockbusters coming.
Combine that poor timing with a subpar marketing effort and that is the results you see now.
You can't say that the GFFA new trilogy is suffering when TFA did 2 billion. You don't get to 2 billion without repeat viewings. In NA it did 960 million and it led into strong openings for Rouge one and TLJ. Adjusted for inflation it's the 2nd biggest Star Wars movie. It will have out earned Infinity War by 250 million domestically without accounting for inflation. It's the biggest movie since Titanic despite being in the Netflix era.
Saying the new Trillogy wasn't well received is revisionist history.
Even TLJ's box office wasnt a disaster. It was the bottom end of expectations. The big question is does it affect the opening of IX and did in affect the opening of Solo? I think until we get that datapoint we don't know. Though I'm willing to bet you get a 200 million + open out of 9 and an out performance of TLJ.
I don't want to speculate on repeat viewings because that's hard to put any number on that but millions of people saw TLJ and came out thinking it was terrible which has probably put a dent into the Star Wars franchise. IMO declining viewership is going to be the trend going forward and played a role in Solo flopping.
Last edited by Erick Estrada; 06-05-2018 at 07:00 AM.
I haven't seen the movie, and to tell you the truth, I just have no desire to. Part of my lack of motivation for this movie is the bad taste TLJ left in my mouth, and that was only 5-6 months ago I saw that film.
To me Solo just seems like a generic action/CGI-fest. I literally fell asleep in the 2nd Hobbit film, and decided I just can't watch any more of these style of films. I don't find the "hey ho" action set pieces entertaining. The crammed in "funny" moments are getting to me. Maybe I'm just too old to enjoy these films, and I'm probably not their target demographic anymore. When the best thing reviewers can say about a movie was that it was "fun", I typically find little appeal.
What I loved about the original Star Wars was the world building and the environments. Even in ROTJ, which is the worst of the OT. they had amazing scenes like this:
Vader is menacing. The space station looks real and lived in. The camera shots are stylistic but fit the scene. The dialogue seems natural and the characters real. The closest that the new movies have come to creating this feeling was Rogue One. Although I will say I found TFA good, but the story was too derivative, and it didn't hold up to repeat viewings. It was still an enjoyable experience in the theaters.
This is coming from a person that spent much of his youth saving up money to buy random Star Wars models/toys/video games. I don't feel vengeful or angry about the new Star Wars movies. I see, from a business standpoint, why they've done what they've done. I just don't feel any desire to see Solo.
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Poor Jerrijod, he shows fear of Vader as he deplanes, then he realizes, Vader might be reasonable, and actually stands up to him a bit. Then blammo, Vader cuts him off at the knees, threatens him with the Emperor and hits him with the throw away one liner.
The one thing that I really liked about Lucas, is his eye for detail is just amazing, and his ability to set the physical look of the story he's telling just stands out. When you combined that with a director who could write dialogue you got a lethal combination like Empire.
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Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!
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On an added note, I do believe Star Wars IX - Kylo gets sent to his room is going to be in real danger of suffering at the box office. Especially after the last film, and they're going to have to do something extra ordinary to get the buzz going on this one. Maybe a spoiler clip of Palpatine's ghost and Snokes ghost tag team wrestling Kenobi and Luke's ghost with Yoda as their manager.
I sure agree with this last point Captain. Disney will have to do two things:
Make a good solid movie.
Market it in such a way that it’s clear it’s not just a winding down of the previous two movies. There has to be some meaningful threat and expected consequences or else it is just waiting for Kylo Ren to be sent to his room.
It will still do big business but another 25% drop from Last Jedi is likely.
I firmly believe that we are going to get a reboot in this last movie of the entire series. I believe that there are some stark disconnects from the first movie that they're going to have to fix, with the main one being the story of Rey's Family.
I believe that they're going to James Earl Jones up that story line, where Kylo told Rey that her parents were nothing but drunks who sold her for liquor money.
So what's a James Earl Jones. When he first read the Vader dialogue and came to the part where Vader told Luke he was his father, Jones firmly believed that he was lying to shake Luke up.
I think in this case, that we will find out that Rey's parents were somebody's, and that they left Rey with the drunks as they either fled for their lives, or she was hidden there by someone else.
The biggest reason that I believe this is still the fight between Rey and Ren. If you watch that fight, and you watch two other fights, the fight between Mace and Palpatine and the fight between Anakin and Dooku, you see a lot of the same techniques that were used by Anakin and Palpatine. As well, I can't get by the look of Grim Satisfaction and rage on her face as she beat the ever loving crap out of Ren, when I watched that scene I was like "She went shere Luke couldn't go"
I think that the second movie either intentionally or via some pretty tone deaf script writing pulled us away from the direction that Rey's personal story is supposed to go, I think that we're going to get some kind of reboot of Rey's character and her certain point of view in the next movie.
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I don't want to speculate on repeat viewings because that's hard to put any number on that but millions of people saw TFA and came out thinking it was terrible which has probably put a dent into the Star Wars franchise. IMO declining viewership is going to be the trend going forward and played a role in Solo flopping.
Those millions of people who "didn't" like TFA still showed up for "TLJ". The opening weekend of TLJ had the lowest % drop of any of 2nd movies. There is no arguement to be made that TFA hurt anything.
Those millions of people who "didn't" like TFA still showed up for "TLJ". The opening weekend of TLJ had the lowest % drop of any of 2nd movies. There is no arguement to be made that TFA hurt anything.
There is a case to be made for TLJ hurting Solo.
Sorry I messed up in my post. I meant "TLJ" not "TFA".
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It's hard to tell at this point if the disappointing box office is because Solo isn't a good movie, or because the Last Jedi poisoned the well. I know I came away from TLJ with the same attitude I came away from the second Hobbit movie: I'm out.
I'll watch Solo at some point in the next couple weeks, as I quite liked Rogue One and find the idea of standalone Star Wars movies more appealing than endless rehashes of the original trilogy. But we might be seeing more proof that a single bad movie (TLJ) can poison a franchise, even one as big as Star Wars.
I guess we'll find out when Episode IX opens.
This post sums up my feelings the best, especially the bold.
It would have actually been easy to build up a great story based on the softballs that JJ lobbed up in TFA. Why oh why did Rian think it would be a good idea to go off the beaten path? Let the Skywalker saga play out over two more films, then go ####ing nuts with your spinoffs and standalone trilogies exploring different characters and risky plots.
Luke should have died in Ep IX and his death should have redeemed Kylo. Now everything is ruined.
This post sums up my feelings the best, especially the bold.
It would have actually been easy to build up a great story based on the softballs that JJ lobbed up in TFA. Why oh why did Rian think it would be a good idea to go off the beaten path? Let the Skywalker saga play out over two more films, then go ####ing nuts with your spinoffs and standalone trilogies exploring different characters and risky plots.
Luke should have died in Ep IX and his death should have redeemed Kylo. Now everything is ruined.
At this point its ok to do something different, and I think Rian wanted to do that. Nope, Rey's parents were nobodies. Luke's death wasn't a great sacrifice, but a small one. I respect that, but he did it at the cost of the over arching storyline of the trilogy, it was equivalent to taking a shot gun out and shooting the trilogy in the knee, it just feels like its limping over the finish line now.
If there's actually one thing that I do like is Ren's justification in a way, because its different from the first 6 films. Its not about power, its about destroying a past that causes the galaxy nothing except pain and him nothing but pain. Kill the Republic and the Empire, end the Sith and the Jedi that have been constantly been fighting for thousands of years and sucking everything around them into it.
Its smart and it makes sense, but what ruins it, is instead of making Ren a good villain he comes across as even more whiny and petulant then Anakin Skywalker ever could have been. So the question is this
Why does he have to be redeemed? In a lot of ways he's worse then Palpatine or Vader ever was. Palpatine wanted to rule the Galaxy and get rid of the corruption of the Republic. Vader saw that democracy and the jedi caused Chaos and destruction and that the universe should be ruled properly and forever. Kylo is scarred by his past and he's grrrrangry about it. Don't redeem him, kill him off and move on.
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This article is a couple years old, but it explains the systemic problem that may be responsible for Solo's low returns:
Quote:
Hollywood’s Flood Of Big-Budget Films Could Be “Dire” For Profits – Analyst
...The main problem is that too many studios make too many big-budget franchise films. This year studios will release 30 pics that cost $100 million or more to produce, up from 22 last year.
The ones that succeed strike gold. But the increased competition lowers the odds for any one to break out. “Ultimately, we think many of these incremental blockbuster films are not going to work, and incur significant losses for their studios,” the analyst says.
The trend is likely to continue, because it’s in nobody’s interest to stop. Those who do would help their competitors but “have fewer chances of hitting one of the few home runs that arrives every year.”
I think its a lot simpler then that, though that is a combination of it;
Lets say you want to take your girlfriend to a movie. so you buy two adult tickets at $15.00 each. You then go and get some snacks and probably spend another $20.00, so now you're in the hole for $80.00 for two hours of entertainment.
Or lets say you want to take your wife and your two kids to the movies. So you spend lets say 32 for the parents and 24 for the kids so that's $56.00, you have to buy a bunch of junk food, so you spend $30 or $40.00, so now for 2 hours that's a hundred bucks.
I believe that theatres and movie numbers really benefited from things like $2.00 Tuesday's for example, or other specials.
I believe that families used to go out to movies monthly, but with the cost of $100.00 monthly or $2400.00 a year. Families are going less, because frankly for $2400.00 you can buy a really nice TV with surround sound and either buy a DVD or rent from a streaming services and its a lot cheaper.
It used to be that you went to a movie because the experience was far better for you. But outside of 3d I think that we can say that home technology has surpassed theater technology just in terms of view pleasure and you're not surrounded by people that smell bad, or talk too much or blind you with their cellphones, or have their crying kids loosing their poop.
I mean even things like 3d aren't as important anymore, I know a lot of people that just go to a regular movie and skip the 3d.
I believe that people are making easier decisions on what needs to be seen in a theater and what you can enjoy just as much or not more in your home.
I believe that the theater business is pricing itself out of a market that its going to have trouble competing with. I believe that brand burnout is making it easier for people to say, I'll wait and watch it for free on netflix.
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If there's actually one thing that I do like is Ren's justification in a way, because its different from the first 6 films. Its not about power, its about destroying a past that causes the galaxy nothing except pain and him nothing but pain. Kill the Republic and the Empire, end the Sith and the Jedi that have been constantly been fighting for thousands of years and sucking everything around them into it.
Kylo tells Rey that he's done with the light and dark, the empire/FO and rebels/resistance and that he's gonna start a new thing. five minutes later, he is declared the new supreme leader by Hux, takes command of the FO fleet and proceeds to hunt down the rebels, like they always have. so what progress did we get out of TLJ? the resistance is smaller but have a more powerful jedi on their side. the FO lost a few big ships, and have a whiny boy in charge instead of an uber dark sider that was able to project his force abilities across the galaxy.
people may not like the sandcastle that JJ started, because it resembles other sandcastles that have been built before, but is the trilogy better off now that RJ came and kicked the whole thing over? what I would give to be a fly on the wall when they're having script meetings for Episode IX.
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