Building The 2018/19 Flames Roster

[Doc Hudson]

Kessel???!!!!????

[VilleN]

Originally Posted by Doc Hudson

Kessel???!!!!????

Kessel is a fantastic winger. 90 pts last season... I don’t see why any team wouldn’t want him. His cap hit isn’t bad considering his production.


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[stemit14]

I’ve said this before but the biggest improvement that could be made to the powerplay is having a right-handed sniper. The limitations on cross-ice plays and not getting shots off quickly enough were a big result of virtually every skilled forward on the team being left-handed. Gaudreau, monahan, ferland, backlund, tkachuk, jankowski, and Bennett are all skilled forwards IMO. I know Versteeg is skilled and a right shot but he always played the right side in the powerplay instead of his off-wing... plus he isn’t known as a sniper.

There aren’t a lot of guys available that fit the bill for what I’ve described but here is the best that I can think of: kovalchuk, Kessel, iginla (I always want to bring him back so that’s probably my fanboy side talking). Other option is to hope Foo could produce in that spot... it was refreshing seeing one-timers from him at he end of the season.


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[Fire]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

It would be a colossal mistake to buy him out this season. We have the cap space to absorb his contract for another year before Tkachuk, Ferland and Bennett's contracts are up. If need be, we can just bury Brouwer in Stockton and buy him out in 2019. You do not want his dead cap space for 4 seasons. We might actually need the cap space by then.

It would hardly be a colossal mistake. It just adds one more year with a cap hit of $1.5 million.

If bought out this season:
2018-19 $1.5 cap hit
2019-20 $1.5 cap hit
2020-21 $1.5 cap hit
2021-22 $1.5 cap hit

If bought out next season:
2018-19 $4.5 cap hit
2019-20 $1.5 cap hit
2020-21 $1.5 cap hit

[FanIn80]

Why are we talking about trading assets for Kessel instead of just signing Neal?

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

Why are we talking about trading assets for Kessel instead of just signing Neal?

Right hand shot. Neal's a lefty

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

Why are we talking about trading assets for Kessel instead of just signing Neal?

Do we really want to pay Neal $5-6 million for 5-6 years?

I'm pretty sure that's what it'll take, and he'll be 31 by the time next season starts. Paying a power forward money like that until he's 36/37 sounds like a recipe for disaster.

I'd love to have Neal on this team for the next couple of seasons, but I can't see him signing for a short term like that.

[Roof-Daddy]

Latest is Kovalchuk is looking for a 2-3 year deal at about $6 million per.

Frick sakes why does he have to be dead set on the east coast?

That would be perfect for this team IMO. Elite right shooting sniper without the risk of a long term boat anchor contract.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Murray dropped in the depth chart? I guess that missing 36 games with a back injury might have something to do with that.

You might not like this metric either.

In the Playoffs he was the #3 D in TOI behind Seth Jones and Werenski. Not bad guys to be passed on the depth chart. Murray was a +3 , Team high was +4.

If Bennett is a comparable value then the Flames do not have a real problem in the top-6. Looking to upgrade on Ferland or Bennett.

Yes his ongoing injuries are indeed part of why his role on the team is now more a depth role.
You are quoting playoff stats including plus/minus (terrible stat) for 6 games. Sample size man. Sample size.

During the regular season, that actually has a meaningful sample size, he was 5th among dmen in TOI.

You seem to seek out stats that validate your opinion, no matter how statistically insignificant or unreliable those stats are.

[savardandjokinen]

Huge fan of Valimaki, but only play him if it’s right for his development. He’s in my mind the best prospect we have and he has loads of potential

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Do we really want to pay Neal $5-6 million for 5-6 years?

I'm pretty sure that's what it'll take, and he'll be 31 by the time next season starts. Paying a power forward money like that until he's 36/37 sounds like a recipe for disaster.

I'd love to have Neal on this team for the next couple of seasons, but I can't see him signing for a short term like that.

Neal and Kessel are both 30 years old. Kessel is still under contract for $8M a year for four more years, so yes, I would rather pay Neal $5M for five years than Kessel $8M for 4 years.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

Neal and Kessel are both 30 years old. Kessel is still under contract for $8M a year for four more years, so yes, I would rather pay Neal $5M for five years than Kessel $8M for 4 years.

Kessel is retained. His cap hit is 6.8 million and hes only under contract to 34 yeers old. Hes also an elite 30 goal 70 point right shot winger with high end speed.

Neal is a 25 goal 45 point left shot winger. I also doubt you get him for 5 million but we will see I guess. I won't be sad if we sign him. I'll enjoy the first few years and worry about the latter years when we get there.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by stemit14

I’ve said this before but the biggest improvement that could be made to the powerplay is having a right-handed sniper. The limitations on cross-ice plays and not getting shots off quickly enough were a big result of virtually every skilled forward on the team being left-handed. Gaudreau, monahan, ferland, backlund, tkachuk, jankowski, and Bennett are all skilled forwards IMO. I know Versteeg is skilled and a right shot but he always played the right side in the powerplay instead of his off-wing... plus he isn’t known as a sniper.

There aren’t a lot of guys available that fit the bill for what I’ve described but here is the best that I can think of: kovalchuk, Kessel, iginla (I always want to bring him back so that’s probably my fanboy side talking). Other option is to hope Foo could produce in that spot... it was refreshing seeing one-timers from him at he end of the season.

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I agree with your post completely. With Versteeg in the line up, we had a top 10 powerplay both this season and last season. If we had an even higher end right shooting forward, I think we would've had an even better powerplay.

I've watched quite a bit of the Maple Leafs this season and they had the exact same set up as us yet they were ranked #2 this season on the PP. The difference? Matthews and Nylander on the flanks instead of Gaudreau and (insert player) _______.

We absolutely need a better right shooting forward because our best RSH forward this season was Troy Brouwer and he had a pathetic 6 goals. That's just embarrassing right shooting forward depth. It could be the reason why we were so predictable this season.

[Mattman]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

Why are we talking about trading assets for Kessel instead of just signing Neal?

Because Kessel is a tier above Neal, so why not go for the best?

People saying that Kessel's last season was a fluke or that it wont happen again but honestly the guy hasn't had a season below 50 points for 10 seasons, dating all the way back to when he was in Boston. He's got 4 year left on a $6,800,000/year deal.

As for Neal in comparison, in his 11 year career he's only had 3 seasons with 50+ points. He's a left handed shot and as someone else posted he's going to be getting somewhere from 6-7 million per season.

They are both 30 years old.

I would trade assets to get Phil Kessel vs throwing money and term at a chance to get James Neal.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Fire

It would hardly be a colossal mistake. It just adds one more year with a cap hit of $1.5 million.

If bought out this season:
2018-19 $1.5 cap hit
2019-20 $1.5 cap hit
2020-21 $1.5 cap hit
2021-22 $1.5 cap hit

If bought out next season:
2018-19 $4.5 cap hit
2019-20 $1.5 cap hit
2020-21 $1.5 cap hit

Alright fair enough, the colossal might been a bit of hyperbole, but that last season could be a big one. Hamilton's contract will be up and Tkachuk, Ferland, Bennett, Jankowski and etc might all get big raises by then. $1.5M might not seem big now, but at that moment it could be the difference between a $1.5m player or a $3m player.

We have a lot of cap space this off season, so I'm ok with the idea of burning 1 more year of his contract. I'll bet Brad thinks the same way as well.

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

Alright fair enough, the colossal might been a bit of hyperbole, but that last season could be a big one. Hamilton's contract will be up and Tkachuk, Ferland, Bennett, Jankowski and etc might all get big raises by then. $1.5M might not seem big now, but at that moment it could be the difference between a $1.5m player or a $3m player.

We have a lot of cap space this off season, so I'm ok with the idea of burning 1 more year of his contract. I'll bet Brad thinks the same way as well.

Not might have been a bit of... it was hyperbole.

Not to mention something you didn't mention / take into account is that the latest estimates have the cap going up to 78-82 million (https://www.tsn.ca/golden-knights-su...ason-1.1097245)

Lastly, "burning one more year" of Brower's contract also effectively and purposely weakens one of our 3rd or 4th lines this next coming season if he's still around, as he's a black hole that makes everyone around him worse.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Neal’s a little bitch. I’d much rather have Kessel if we are comparing the two.

[stemit14]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

I agree with your post completely. With Versteeg in the line up, we had a top 10 powerplay both this season and last season. If we had an even higher end right shooting forward, I think we would've had an even better powerplay.



I've watched quite a bit of the Maple Leafs this season and they had the exact same set up as us yet they were ranked #2 this season on the PP. The difference? Matthews and Nylander on the flanks instead of Gaudreau and (insert player) _______.



We absolutely need a better right shooting forward because our best RSH forward this season was Troy Brouwer and he had a pathetic 6 goals. That's just embarrassing right shooting forward depth. It could be the reason why we were so predictable this season.

Hopefully it’s something treliving can address. I’m not even totally opposed to Foo in that spot except that it’s a big gamble. But a right-handed goal-scorer is so essential to this team moving forward. You watch any of the consistently high-end powerplays in the league... they have that one-timer from the left side. It makes penalty-killers respect that side... if they over-commit, that leaves monahan open in the slot and he’s one of the deadly shooters in the league from there. Combine that with arguably the best playmaker in the league (gaudreau) and possibly one of the top 5 guys in the league at tips/screening/down-low play (tkachuk) and you have a recipe for a wicked power play. The flames have so many pieces filled... but they need that right-handed shooter.

Stamkos, ovechkin, Laine, and Matthews are great examples. Those guys obviously aren’t options but anything is better than the status quo. This is so essential to the team I hope treliving explores every option. I noticed the post earlier that Charlie Coyle is available... he would at least be an improvement. If kovalchuk won’t sign, the price for kessel/coyle is too high or kessel won’t waive his no-trade clause and no other shooters are available... then I call up iginla and ask if he’d take a PTO. Tell him we need him to shoot and shot often if he wants to make the team.


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[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by GoJetsGo

Not might have been a bit of... it was hyperbole.

Not to mention something you didn't mention / take into account is that the latest estimates have the cap going up to 78-82 million (https://www.tsn.ca/golden-knights-su...ason-1.1097245)

Lastly, "burning one more year" of Brower's contract also effectively and purposely weakens one of our 3rd or 4th lines this next coming season if he's still around, as he's a black hole that makes everyone around him worse.

I’m confused on which side of the argument you’re on.

It’s true, the salary cap is going up and it will lessen the impact his cap hit has on the team as we’ll have roughly $16-$20 million in free cap space with only a handful of role players to sign. We can take on Brouwer’s cap hit and still have enough to sign high quality free agents. There’s no need to buy some out just for the sake of buying someone out. You buy a player out if you 100% need the additional cap space to sign someone else.

Also, Brouwer wasn’t even the worst player on the 4th line this season. He’s clearly overpaid, but can be effective on the 4th line with limited minutes. I wouldn’t personally play him on special teams very much, but it’s not like his presence will destroy the team if he’s not bought out.

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

I’m confused on which side of the argument you’re on.

It’s true, the salary cap is going up and it will lessen the impact his cap hit has on the team as we’ll have roughly $16-$20 million in free cap space with only a handful of role players to sign. We can take on Brouwer’s cap hit and still have enough to sign high quality free agents. There’s no need to buy some out just for the sake of buying someone out. You buy a player out if you 100% need the additional cap space to sign someone else.

Also, Brouwer wasn’t even the worst player on the 4th line this season. He’s clearly overpaid, but can be effective on the 4th line with limited minutes. I wouldn’t personally play him on special teams very much, but it’s not like his presence will destroy the team if he’s not bought out.

I'm of the opinion that Brouwer is a black hole that makes any line-mates he plays with worse.

So whether we put him in the press box, Stockton, or buy him out, I'd prefer any of those options over icing him in any capacity as I think he's a net negative.

Our bottom six was a big problem for us this last season, and having him out of it would would be addition by subtraction in my opinion. Your suggestion he wasn't the worst player on the bottom line last year is disingenuous in my opinion. I think any rookies or struggling players paired with him were worse off as a result.

Regardless, I don't view it as a "colossal mistake" to buy him out and thought that was extremely over-stated.