[News] Marek - recent 1st round pick unlikely to play in NHL due to video game addiction

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by yourbestfriend

There's a big difference between putting kids into sports to stay in shape and have fun versus trying to turn them professional.

Hockey is more expensive relative to a lot of other sports, however, putting kids into house league hockey isn't a reach for most middle class families.

Prices for elite travel hockey teams, specialized shooting, skating and other forms of extra curricular coaching that are are designed to guide kids to the WHL and NCAA are rightfully so expensive. Does every kid need to be put into these programs? Absolutely not. I personally don't believe it's the parents responsibility to try to turn their kids pro, especially if they don't have the means to do it.

Do you not see the problem here? By your very description professional sports are becoming an elitist ambition that is increasingly only accessible to those who can afford them. The problem here is that there is a growing class separation between elite level sports, and recreational sports that is absolutely restricting opportunities. It means that those who cannot afford the enormous expense of travel and high-level training will almost certainly never even find their way to the WHL or NCAA—to say nothing of the professional leagues. This means that even for those kids who ARE talented enough to make a professional sporting career they may only succeed by gaining access to the prohibitively expensive elite-level training and proving grounds.

I would warrant that this is fundamentally different than how sports recruitment functioned thirty-years ago, when high level amateur athletes were identified on the basis of their natural abilities that were honed through participation at grass-roots levels. When at once there were no "specialized shooting, skating and other forms of extra curricular coaching" the playing-field was much more level: it was kids with wealthy parents playing on the same teams as kids with poor parents with no added expenses beyond equipment and fees.

[Hockeyguy15]

Originally Posted by Split98

It's odd you took such offence to being called a dick, and yet respond with this. I don't know why I thought turning a page with you would result in anything engaging. You 'called me to task' over my "[...]contribution to the discussion [being] to quote and requote [your] points, without supplying or contributing anything really new to the discussion" to which I responded but you seem very reluctant again to respond in any meaningful way. Again, it's a very odd way to form a discussion.

The slant you're reading is my opinion that you called me out for not providing to you enough of. The other half are things you wrote. Slant is an odd characterization of someone's opinion.

Considering you're so hard pressed to get answers, answer mine. If you want to be that guy, I really want you to dive deeper on all 12 points. If you're going to criticize others efforts towards your opinion, you should be ready to respond in kind.

This thread is not a sport, but you're going to lose.

[yourbestfriend]

Originally Posted by FlamesFanTrev

Beautifully summed up, if more then somewhat slanted. You really are great at quoting and requoting.

In response to your newest post:

I disagree, I don't think e-sports is a sport.

There is still a negative connotation in N/A (especially among the 40+ demographic) that gaming is still a nerdy or uncool thing to do. The cool kids were on football teams or played hockey or whatever while the uncool kids played on their PC's. I think this mentality will disappear with the baby boomer generation.

Contrast this to the China and Korea esports market where there are now legitimate training centers for guys to get coached and hone their skills. Having an argument over whether esports is a sport or not is 10000% missing the entire point. Who cares what anybody classifies it as, and does it even make a difference?

Regardless of what anybody decides to classify it as, esports is a legitimate threat for ALL N/A professional sports leagues, both in terms of viewers, revenue and potentially talent down the road, which is why they are all starting to expand their online esports presence.

[GioforPM]

New topics:
Are emails mail? Yes.
Are e-transfers transfers? I sure hope so.
Are e-cigarettes cigarettes? No.
Are ebooks books? Hell yes.

[Split98]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

New topics:
Are emails mail? Yes.
Are e-transfers transfers? I sure hope so.
Are e-cigarettes cigarettes? No.
Are ebooks books? Hell yes.

Go on...

[yourbestfriend]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Do you not see the problem here? By your very description professional sports are becoming an elitist ambition that is increasingly only accessible to those who can afford them. The problem here is that there is a growing class separation between elite level sports, and recreational sports that is absolutely restricting opportunities. It means that those who cannot afford the enormous expense of travel and high-level training will almost certainly never even find their way to the WHL or NCAA—to say nothing of the professional leagues.

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I would warrant that this is fundamentally different than how sports recruitment functioned thirty-years ago, when high level amateur athletes were identified on the basis of their natural abilities that were honed through participation at grass-roots levels. When at once there were no "specialized shooting, skating and other forms of extra curricular coaching" the playing-field was much more level: it was kids with wealthy parents playing on the same teams as kids with poor parents with no added expenses beyond equipment and fees.

To fully understand this issue, we have to take a look at it from the very top. The quality of product on the ice is by far the biggest factor for the NHL. 30 years ago, when there wasn’t specialized training the quality of the games at times was questionable. Since then, with all of the specialized coaching and training, the quality of players and therefore competition and entertainment for the fans have has IMO exponentially increased. This is a direct result of the money that some (rich) parents are willing to spend on their kids to turn them pro.


You have ex-NHL players who are trying to monetize their skills with families who are more than willing to spend money for their services. Boom, that’s a high demand and low supply environment which means prices will explode. This is a systemic problem that occurs in a non-state sponsored capitalistic environment, there will always be families who are willing to spend more.



I'm not saying it's right or wrong, but this is where we have evolved to, How would you attempt to remove the income inequality from the equation without nationalizing sports in this country?

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by yourbestfriend

...I'm not saying it's right or wrong, but this is where we have evolved to, How would you attempt to remove the income inequality from the equation without nationalizing sports in this country?

This is a really good response, and I agree with everything you have said here. I don't know that there is a solution, and to be honest, I am not overly invested in whether or not professional athletes are all borne of a level playing field of opportunity (my own son's future notwithstanding—I am trying to be pragmatic about all of this). However, as mentioned in my first post on this topic I do believe it is important to maintain a clear perspective about the future of professional sports, and to dispel of the myths about sports as a viable conduit for socioeconomic ladder-climbing. Just because it will continue to occasionally happen, this does not mean that it is a viable option for every athletically talented kid from every neighbourhood. This is akin to believing that playing the lottery is a good investment strategy.

[Poe969]

This thread isn't even made of thread!!!!

[Split98]

Hearing things about the NFL or MLB (or both?) losing viewership got me thinking a while ago about the future of those sports. Then you think back to the 20's when Horse Racing was hot. Was Tennis ever a super-hot sport?

Anyways, maybe that's the future of hockey? With the massive investment needed to even have a sniff at the pros, maybe they look back at hockey as an elitist sport. We know family friends who are shuttling their kid all over the States and Canada for tournament after tournament. She can barely work, and thankfully he can pay for all of this. It's crazy to think that if he didn't have that support he might not have a shot.

Odd to think about, but our Great Grandparents weren't likely big hockey fans.

[Textcritic]

^
I personally believe that all professional sports will become obsolete before the end of the century.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Do you not see the problem here? By your very description professional sports are becoming an elitist ambition that is increasingly only accessible to those who can afford them. The problem here is that there is a growing class separation between elite level sports, and recreational sports that is absolutely restricting opportunities.

Not only that, but the elite model is supplanting the community model. The issue isn't that you have to spend lots of money and travel all over the place to pursue sport at the elite level. The issue is that model has become the norm. 70% of kids drop out of organized sports altogether by age 13.

Across the nation, kids of all skill levels, in virtually every team sport, are getting swept up by a youth-sports economy that increasingly resembles the pros at increasingly early ages. Neighborhood Little Leagues, town soccer associations and church basketball squads that bonded kids in a community–and didn’t cost as much as a rent check–have largely lost their luster. Little League participation, for example, is down 20% from its turn-of-the-century peak. These local leagues have been nudged aside by private club teams, a loosely governed constellation that includes everything from development academies affiliated with professional sports franchises to regional squads run by moonlighting coaches with little experience. The most competitive teams vie for talent and travel to national tournaments. Others are elite in name only, siphoning expensive participation fees from parents of kids with little hope of making the high school varsity, let alone the pros.

http://time.com/magazine/us/4913681/...-190-no-9-u-s/

My wife told me this morning that my 13 year old niece in Seattle is off to Oklahoma this weekend to play in a softball tournament. I assumed she was some kind of elite player but nope, turns out that's just the league she's in. 'Travelling teams' have become the new norm, and an essential badge of membership in today's upper middle class.

[Split98]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

^
I personally believe that all professional sports will become obsolete before the end of the century.

Supplanted with another entertainment, or we evolve past the need for such entertainment?

[Jay Random]

Supplanted would be my bet. The human animal does not evolve at sufficient speed for change to be observable over the course of a few generations.

Professional sport was a thing in the highly urbanized societies of ancient Greece and Rome, disappeared in the Middle Ages, and did not appear again until the early 19th century. It has existed in a small minority of cultures for a small portion of history. For it to disappear again would be nothing new.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

Supplanted would be my bet. The human animal does not evolve at sufficient speed for change to be observable over the course of a few generations.

Professional sport was a thing in the highly urbanized societies of ancient Greece and Rome, disappeared in the Middle Ages, and did not appear again until the early 19th century. It has existed in a small minority of cultures for a small portion of history. For it to disappear again would be nothing new.

Only by way of a very loosely construed definition of "professional." There were elite athletic competitions in antiquity, but nothing even remotely comparable to modern-day professional sports. There were no sporting economies, and athletics were not vocations.

I am of two minds on this: I believe most likely either supplanted by another form of entertainment—which I suspect will emerge with the evolution of VR and role-playing to supplant all current forms of entertainment. On the other hand, I have a more dystopian view by which our future environmental and social concerns will overtake most of our leisure pursuits.

[Split98]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Only by way of a very loosely construed definition of "professional." There were elite athletic competitions in antiquity, but nothing even remotely comparable to modern-day professional sports. There was no sporting economies, and athletics were not vocations.

I am of two minds on this: I believe most likely either supplanted by another form of entertainment—which I suspect will emerge with the evolution of VR and role-playing to supplant all current forms of entertainment. On the other hand, I have a more dystopian view by which our future environmental and social concerns will overtake most of our leisure pursuits.

Now that I'm picturing it, I have a hard time imagining caring too much about professional sports myself.

In a world where everyone is in control of a fantasy they can journey to whenever they want... it's hard to think of sitting in an arena watching elitist barbarians play on a flat ice. I'll go home and embarrass Legacy-Crosby in my ice-dome at home.

To your latter mind... I'm rocking in a corner forgetting you suggested it.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Split98

...To your latter mind... I'm rocking in a corner forgetting you suggested it.

I have a friend and colleague from my time at the University of Agder who uses computer models to predict religious trends and social outcomes. He is convinced that we as a species will cause our own extinction within 200 years.

Have a great day!

[CF84]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

^
I personally believe that all professional sports will become obsolete before the end of the century.

Professional sports will disappear with the internet.

[Split98]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I have a friend and colleague from my time at the University of Agder who uses computer models to predict religious trends and social outcomes. He is convinced that we as a species will cause our own extinction within 200 years.

Have a great day!

[icecube]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I have a friend and colleague from my time at the University of Agder who uses computer models to predict religious trends and social outcomes. He is convinced that we as a species will cause our own extinction within 200 years.

Have a great day!

Sounds about 100 years too optimistic on his part.

[dieHARDflameZ]

Saying competitive gaming is a sport is like saying poker is a sport, what a joke.

You’re sitting at a table staring at a computer screen. To me a sport is something that involves some kind of physical activity and yes that includes golf.

I used to play competitive counter-strike and honestly, it’s not a sport at all.