Arena negotiation discussion. UPD: Flames release their proposal

[GioforPM]

I've supported Nenshi generally (not particularly on the arena - I think his motivation is not about taxpayers but rather about rival pet projects). But while his election is sort of proof of his popularity, it should be noted that he got the lowest support of any incumbent for a long long time last election. Most incumbents have gotten out before they even saw as low as 80% support. So his time may be done.

[rage2]

Originally Posted by FireFly

They're also waiting on a decision regarding the Olympics because that would also surely get them into a new building.

Flames aren't waiting for anything from the Olympics bid. The Olympics bid plan in it's current form does not include costs for a new arena. It assumes that the Flames and the City have built one already. There's $10m of upgrades for the Saddledome and $19m in upgrades for the Corral in the plan.

[csnarpy]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Nah, millennials would have connected more with Nenshi than Klein, who seems to invoke nostalgic pride in what Calgary "used to be", a somewhat still popular sentiment for older folks.

Calgary in the 2010's is not the same as Calgary in the 1980's. Vast social differences.

Nenshi is well liked by some. The election results prove it.

Winning by 30 thousand votes to the least animated candidate without a clear agenda, really doesn’t say much for his popularity.

[rohara66]

Originally Posted by rage2

and $19m in upgrades for the Corral in the plan.

That is straight up stupid. Hah

[Otto-matic]

Originally Posted by rage2

Flames aren't waiting for anything from the Olympics bid. The Olympics bid plan in it's current form does not include costs for a new arena. It assumes that the Flames and the City have built one already. There's $10m of upgrades for the Saddledome and $19m in upgrades for the Corral in the plan.

Aren't they tearing down the Corral?

[GGG]

Originally Posted by rage2

Flames aren't waiting for anything from the Olympics bid. The Olympics bid plan in it's current form does not include costs for a new arena. It assumes that the Flames and the City have built one already. There's $10m of upgrades for the Saddledome and $19m in upgrades for the Corral in the plan.

The Flames are waiting for the Olympic bid becuase they know they have maximum leverage if the City has committed to hosting the Olympics with an arena in place and they don't have an arena in place.

So as the bid deadline approaches the Flames leverage goes up. There is no point of the Flames moving from their current position until the Olympic bid needs their support.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by GGG

The Flames are waiting for the Olympic bid becuase they know they have maximum leverage if the City has committed to hosting the Olympics with an arena in place and they don't have an arena in place.



So as the bid deadline approaches the Flames leverage goes up. There is no point of the Flames moving from their current position until the Olympic bid needs their support.

Which I think is clearly the right play, because then it’s a privately owned organization helping the city by investing in the olympics - not the city helping a privately owned company build an arena.

If Nenshi does have other investors lined up to invest in an arena, where are they? Why aren’t we aware of them, where are those negotiations? Why hasn’t Nenshi even begun to deliver on what he showed in his last campaign?

As a side note, does anyone else find it increasingly odd that so many people now look at the government as this wholesome body that will do no wrong and is always doing right by its people? When did “the man” become the cure all to our social issues and financial complications?

[GGG]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Which I think is clearly the right play, because then it’s a privately owned organization helping the city by investing in the olympics - not the city helping a privately owned company build an arena.

If Nenshi does have other investors lined up to invest in an arena, where are they? Why aren’t we aware of them, where are those negotiations? Why hasn’t Nenshi even begun to deliver on what he showed in his last campaign?

As a side note, does anyone else find it increasingly odd that so many people now look at the government as this wholesome body that will do no wrong and is always doing right by its people? When did “the man” become the cure all to our social issues and financial complications?

Absolutely the Flames are doing right by their shareholders and I would argue that Nenshi avoiding the Flames attempt to use the election to ratchet up pressure was looking out for his stakeholders. Both sides are playing properly based on their incentives.

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by Muta

I hope you're right... if I was a season ticket holder I'd really be pissed about this approach from the Flames. The last thing they need is to start losing that base.

Season ticket holders were not apparently pissed off enough to cancel their tickets, if judging by the “should I renew?” thread. Everybody pretty much caved in at the deadline and renewed, despite any misgivings about ownership or King.

[Robbob]

I find it better to separate the business from the game. It is all negotiating game from both sides, it is better not take things so seriously that a comment or action here or there incites rage.

You just have to trust the process.

[Muta]

Originally Posted by Wormius

Season ticket holders were not apparently pissed off enough to cancel their tickets, if judging by the “should I renew?” thread. Everybody pretty much caved in at the deadline and renewed, despite any misgivings about ownership or King.

I wouldn't judge all season ticket holders by a single discussion board thread. Also, the Flames' current position of 'taking my ball and going home' is not a viable long-term strategy; it is an exhausting approach. This strategy will, eventually, run its course and the Flames will have to come to the table. If not, they will lose trust and goodwill with their fan base.

[Robbob]

Yeah, but I also don't mind what the Flames are doing. The first time this committee was setup it was released and turned its head at the flames press conference with Peters. That wasn't the time or place for that conversation so I didn't mind the canned response.

Even right now, not releasing a comment is fine. I don't want them negotiating or commenting through the media. Just get it done, there is nothing to be gained from making releases now.

[Muta]

Originally Posted by Robbob

Yeah, but I also don't mind what the Flames are doing. The first time this committee was setup it was released and turned its head at the flames press conference with Peters. That wasn't the time or place for that conversation so I didn't mind the canned response.

Even right now, not releasing a comment is fine. I don't want them negotiating or commenting through the media. Just get it done, there is nothing to be gained from making releases now.

That strategy is the right approach, but I don't suspect that's happening or will happen anytime soon.

[rage2]

Originally Posted by rohara66

That is straight up stupid. Hah

Originally Posted by Otto-matic

Aren't they tearing down the Corral?

Yes, there are plans to tear down the Corral. Right after the $19m upgrade, and the Olympics are over.

The Corral is planned to be used as a secondary venue for hockey, basically the not as popular games.

[Robbob]

Originally Posted by Muta

That strategy is the right approach, but I don't suspect that's happening or will happen anytime soon.

One just has to hope. It clearly has hit a lot of nerves and I think both parties want a clean reset. I think part of the problem is saying it doesn't make it so. One doesn't have to look far to see the pitchfork are raring to go.

[Hockey Fan #751]

Originally Posted by Red Slinger

I'm sorry but there's no way Klein would have survived as a politician in the age of social media. The guy could be charming and clever but he could also be belligerent, petty, abrasive and short-sighted. His liquid lunches at the Cecil alone would have done him in.

I would have 100% agreed with this three years ago. But in the age where Trump is president and Doug Ford is about to become Premier of Ontario, this type of politics is thriving.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by Hockey Fan #751

I would have 100% agreed with this three years ago. But in the age where Trump is president and Doug Ford is about to become Premier of Ontario, this type of politics is thriving.

You sure about that?

https://globalnews.ca/news/4241714/t...of-the-people/

[stone hands]

Originally Posted by Wormius

Season ticket holders were not apparently pissed off enough to cancel their tickets, if judging by the “should I renew?” thread. Everybody pretty much caved in at the deadline and renewed, despite any misgivings about ownership or King.

I cancelled mine because of it, fwiw

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Hockey Fan #751

I would have 100% agreed with this three years ago. But in the age where Trump is president and Doug Ford is about to become Premier of Ontario, this type of politics is thriving.

I think it’s more likely he get bronze in this race. Ontario is Orange now.

[Manhattanboy]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

I think it’s more likely he get bronze in this race. Ontario is Orange now.

When will people finally learn that voting NDP as a protest vote is the stupidest thing one can ever do? Ever.