2017/2018 Trade Speculation and Rumors

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

As mentioned, I don’t think Brodie gets traded until Kulak or a prospect like Kylington or Valimaki make Brodie expendable.

I think all three of those guys are an upgrade on Brodie at this point. His decision making and poor play in his own end negates any offence he adds. Dump him now while he still has perceived value.

[Machiavelli]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

I think all three of those guys are an upgrade on Brodie at this point. His decision making and poor play in his own end negates any offence he adds. Dump him now while he still has perceived value.

Kulak is not an upgrade. The other two aren't even NHLers

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Machiavelli

Kulak is not an upgrade. The other two aren't even NHLers

We will agree to disagree. Kulak was way better than Brodie was last year, Kylington has shown he is ready in the AHL, and Valimaki from what I have seen would absolutely be an upgrade. The facts are Brodie has been a minus player the past two years, he turns over pucks multiple times in his own end every game that often lead to the opposition scoring, either he is not quick getting back or he is just lazy, and he gets owned physically. He is a pure offensive D man who is a liability in his own end and the Flames are going no where with him on the back end. BT is not stupid or at least I don't think he is and I have very little doubt TJ Brodie will not be a Flame come opening day.

[nik-]

agree to disagree!

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

If these don't eventually correlate, then those GM's are fooling themselves as to their roster.

It's a totally valid opinion to believe the Flames roster has been underperforming and the magic elixir is easily obtainable.

I say don't be afraid to trade parts of the roster for draft picks. You might come to find out the solution to your problems is in your system, even if it doesn't happen overnight.

Eventually agreed.

But a season is a long one off.

The 14-15 Flames shouldn't have made the playoffs. The 2017-18 should have.

You don't leave it, but I wouldn't abandon the core either.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

We will agree to disagree. Kulak was way better than Brodie was last year, Kylington has shown he is ready in the AHL, and Valimaki from what I have seen would absolutely be an upgrade. The facts are Brodie has been a minus player the past two years, he turns over pucks multiple times in his own end every game that often lead to the opposition scoring, either he is not quick getting back or he is just lazy, and he gets owned physically. He is a pure offensive D man who is a liability in his own end and the Flames are going no where with him on the back end. BT is not stupid or at least I don't think he is and I have very little doubt TJ Brodie will not be a Flame come opening day.

I like where you're going, but maybe you're going too far, or too quickly.

I think the better question to ask is this;

Is Brodie (-) with added forward from trade (+) balanced with less experienced defenseman that isn't quite ready to be Brodie (-) is > 0?

The cheapest way to better depth is trusting young players in today's NHL, but only with the caveat of said players being ready. You can't Oiler them.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

We will agree to disagree. Kulak was way better than Brodie was last year, Kylington has shown he is ready in the AHL, and Valimaki from what I have seen would absolutely be an upgrade. The facts are Brodie has been a minus player the past two years, he turns over pucks multiple times in his own end every game that often lead to the opposition scoring, either he is not quick getting back or he is just lazy, and he gets owned physically. He is a pure offensive D man who is a liability in his own end and the Flames are going no where with him on the back end. BT is not stupid or at least I don't think he is and I have very little doubt TJ Brodie will not be a Flame come opening day.

If you believe in this interpretation of Brodie, then how can you suggest there is any “perceived value”?

There will be no dumping of Brodie if your version of Brodie is true. Nobody is taking our 10th best defenceman that is making $4m+.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I like where you're going, but maybe you're going too far, or too quickly.

I think the better question to ask is this;

Is Brodie (-) with added forward from trade (+) balanced with less experienced defenseman that isn't quite ready to be Brodie (-) is > 0?

The cheapest way to better depth is trusting young players in today's NHL, but only with the caveat of said players being ready. You can't Oiler them.

Agreed.

Kulak simply isnt a guy that can take those extra minutes at this point based on last years play.

Though I will say that if Valimaki or Kylington are able to make the jump and can handle 19-20 minutes a night on the 2nd pairing, it is possible. That's why keeping Stone makes some sense in that he was pretty steady on that 3rd pairing and that would be helpful giving Kulak a few more minutes per game. Evening out the ES minutes a bit is optimal much like rolling 4 lines as much as possible helps a team a whole bunch. This, IMO, is the only real way that trading Brodie doesn't hurt the club beyond losing his nightly blunders.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Eventually agreed.

But a season is a long one off.

The 14-15 Flames shouldn't have made the playoffs. The 2017-18 should have.

You don't leave it, but I wouldn't abandon the core either.

We probably see last season differently and the impact of luck etc. I absolutely hope you're right.

But there are certain facts here. Zero playoff wins in three seasons. Coming up on third coach in four years.

I wouldn't abandon the core but I am not married to it. The gap between these results and contending is not small.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

Realistically, Treliving doesn’t care about a long term winning team. He needs to win with the top players he has now, if he can’t then he will be working somewhere else. A draft pick doesn’t help Gio, Tkachuk, Gaudreau and Monahan win the cup, and that’s the play.

I think Treliving has always viewed the Flames' window around Gio. The team is really built to contend around him IMO. That's the urgency - how long can Gio keep his level high?

[Jay Random]

I'd say the core is fine, but lacking in numbers, and the supporting cast needs major upgrades. If the team were to graduate one or two more players good enough to be considered part of the core, they'd be in good shape. At present that looks like it could be Mangiapane, Dube, and/or one of the defence prospects. The odds aren't great calculated simply as odds, but they're not zero either.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

I'd say the core is fine, but lacking in numbers, and the supporting cast needs major upgrades. If the team were to graduate one or two more players good enough to be considered part of the core, they'd be in good shape. At present that looks like it could be Mangiapane, Dube, and/or one of the defence prospects. The odds aren't great calculated simply as odds, but they're not zero either.

I think Jankowski should also be included in the list of potential core players. He had a solid year, and there is plenty of reasons to think he will continue to improve.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I think Jankowski should also be included in the list of potential core players. He had a solid year, and there is plenty of reasons to think he will continue to improve.

Good point. I was thinking of prospects.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski

I think Treliving has always viewed the Flames' window around Gio. The team is really built to contend around him IMO. That's the urgency - how long can Gio keep his level high?

I don't think we can reasonably expect him to be the lynchpin of a Flames Stanley Cup winning team. Gio will turn 35 at start of season and has yet to participate in a playoff game in which his team has won. Just seems like a whole lot has to happen in a very short amount of time.

Maybe he can be the bridge to such a team?

[SeanCharles]

I think you need to trade one of Stone or Brodie and not both, quite yet.

I know I've thought about trading both with injecting Andersson and Kylington/Valamki in there but the smart move would be to move one of them and promote Andersson.

Gio-Hamilton
Brodie-Hamonic
Kulak-Andersson
?

or

Gio-Hamilton
Stone-Hamonic
Kulak-Andersson
?

Dream scenario would be 2 youngins blow the doors off in camp:

Gio-Hamilton
Kylington/Kulak-Hamonic
Kulak/Kylington-Andersson
Stone

I'd still keep Stone for insurance however.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

I don't think we can reasonably expect him to be the lynchpin of a Flames Stanley Cup winning team. Gio will turn 35 at start of season and has yet to participate in a playoff game in which his team has won. Just seems like a whole lot has to happen in a very short amount of time.

Maybe he can be the bridge to such a team?

Who will be the #1 d on their cup team?

[Sylvanfan]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

I'd say the core is fine, but lacking in numbers, and the supporting cast needs major upgrades. If the team were to graduate one or two more players good enough to be considered part of the core, they'd be in good shape. At present that looks like it could be Mangiapane, Dube, and/or one of the defence prospects. The odds aren't great calculated simply as odds, but they're not zero either.

What do you consider a core player to be?

To me it's a number one goaltender, top 3 defenceman and top 6 ice time forward. So a good#3 center could qualify.

Out of the current group I think only Anderson, and Valimaki, and possibly Adam Fox could fill those roles at the NHL level and Parsons or Gillies maybe ma king it in goal.

Dube and Magiapane to me might grow into support roles, but I don't think either becomes a true core player.

Granted better support players is a pretty big need. But I think the Flames core is currently one forward short and the best hope's internally are on defence.

[Roof-Daddy]

Stone being traded this off seasons makes the most sense. It opens up a spot on the bottom pair right side for our arguably most NHL ready D prospect Rasmus Andersson.

Next year if at least one of Kulak, Valimaki or Kylington prove capable of taking a top 4 role in the NHL then you look to move Brodie IMO.

Giordano - Hamilton
TJ Brodie - Hamonic
_______ - Andersson

Kulak, Valimaki and Kylington battle it out for the open spot and you either sign another "Bartkowski" type veteran 7th Dman who is cheap and can mostly eat popcorn or you rotate the young guys around based on performance.

I would however be OK with a Brodie trade sooner if you got a nice return of a top 6 forward or 1st round pick plus, but then replaced him via free agency. Ian Cole, Calvin De Haan or Thomas Hickey would all be decent fits IMO.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski

I think Treliving has always viewed the Flames' window around Gio. The team is really built to contend around him IMO. That's the urgency - how long can Gio keep his level high?

Not really, that would be a pretty bad strategy considering how much youth we have. If anything Gio is the outlier in this core. Gaudreau, Monahan, Hamilton, Tkachuk can be built around for years to come.

Gio is a huge part of our core, but he isn't the canary for the end, he's just part of it until he's no longer part of it and then we still have a foundation for contention if we build around it properly.


I'm kind of hoping Valimaki turns out and can basically replace Gio in our core as a top pairing guy.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Originally Posted by jayswin

Not really, that would be a pretty bad strategy considering how much youth we have. If anything Gio is the outlier in this core. Gaudreau, Monahan, Hamilton, Tkachuk can be built around for years to come.

Gio is a huge part of our core, but he isn't the canary for the end, he's just part of it until he's no longer part of it and then we still have a foundation for contention if we build around it properly.


I'm kind of hoping Valimaki turns out and can basically replace Gio in our core as a top pairing guy.

So the Flames aren't built around a player but a group of young players? I don't necessarily disagree - in fact you could be right - but it's my belief that Gio is the key cog. I may be holding on to an outdated belief that teams are built around 1-2 players.

I think Gio has probably been the best player for a few years and Treliving realized this (all the while assembling this young core) and that's why he said they were all in last season - because of Gio and his ability play the key role in leading them to the championship.

I think it will take a while for any of the other d (who have the same two ability) to be able to reach the level Gio has been at, if they ever can (no diss on them rather stating how good Gio is).