the ongoing anti- racism, anti- oppression thread

[Matata]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

A better way than... which?

Exactly.

[icecube]

The hidden racism of school discipline, in 7 charts

https://www.vox.com/2015/10/31/96465...ne-race-charts

A common reaction to the discipline disparities is to suggest that something other than race is at work — that they're a function of poverty, or that black students are simply more likely to misbehave. But analyses of the data have found that isn't true. Black students and white students are sent to the principal's office at similar rates; states report they commit more serious offenses, such as carrying weapons or drugs at school, at similar rates; and when surveyed about their own behavior, they report similar patterns. Even in cases in which black students do disproportionately act out — a 2008 analysis found twice as many black boys as white boys reported bringing a gun to school — they're more likely to be punished than white students who committed the same infraction.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Matata

Exactly.

Exactly what? What point are you struggling to make? “Better” implies that there’s a way you have in your mind that you’re asking someone to improve upon. So expand on that. What current idea are you looking for an improvement on?

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Exactly what? What point are you struggling to make? “Better” implies that there’s a way you have in your mind that you’re asking someone to improve upon. So expand on that. What current idea are you looking for an improvement on?

Precisely. You missed the sarcasm in his first post

[transplant99]

So...is this "racism"?

An Alberta school division has apologized after a staff member at a Christian school wore blackface while dressed up as a member of the British band Spice Girls.

Elk Island Public Schools said in a statement Monday that it is taking immediate action with the employee to address her conduct.

“We do not condone behaviour that would be offensive or hurtful to any student, employee or member of our school community,” said the division.

“Look who’s here for SCA’s Got Talent! Meet the judges: Simon Cowell, Mel B, Heidi Klum and Howie Mandel!! All the best to our competitors!” said a caption of the photo from SCA Elementary.

I mean....is dressing up as actual black person now crossing the line?

Who is hurt by this? How are they hurt by this? Is this just some faux outrage by the Bashir dude?

http://calgarysun.com/news/national/...d-4dfffd4ff799

[Ashasx]

that Howie Mandel costume is spot on

[WhiteTiger]

Originally Posted by transplant99

So...is this "racism"?




I mean....is dressing up as actual black person now crossing the line?

Who is hurt by this? How are they hurt by this? Is this just some faux outrage by the Bashir dude?

http://calgarysun.com/news/national/...d-4dfffd4ff799

This one crosses some 'interesting' lines, IMO. It's basically the "Halloween" conversation in spring. Huzzah!

The last time I looked into this, the 'general' consensus was that dressing up as a stereotype in general was bad, blackface 'in general' was bad, but there was always an oddly dividing line about dressing up as a specific person of another race.

There doesn't seem to be an overall consensus yet on if it's "ok" or not, but the general thought seems to be coming down on the 'ok' side, since you are trying to be a specific person, and not a stereotype. However which way it goes, I'm pretty sure that someone would get upset about it, though.

[icecube]

Blackface, redface, etc. is in very bad taste and you open yourself to criticism or workplace discipline if you're gonna go there, regardless if you're dressing up as an actual person. People should know this by now.

You can dress up as Lebron but you don't have to put shoe polish all over your face and body to achieve the look.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by transplant99

So...is this "racism"?




I mean....is dressing up as actual black person now crossing the line?

Who is hurt by this? How are they hurt by this? Is this just some faux outrage by the Bashir dude?

http://calgarysun.com/news/national/...d-4dfffd4ff799

I felt bad for an actress or model who went as crazy eyes from Orange is the New Black a couple years ago, as it was a well done costume and was clearly not in any shape meant to be offensive on her part but there was quite some backlash. The same way I bet this teacher never thought she was offending anyone.

However, if you trace the history of blackface it clearly has a foundation in racism. It's not exactly a mystery why someone would take issue with it when you look back at the racist caricatures used in blackface (or other races like Rooney in Breakfast At Tiffany's) in the past.

Take it as a learning moment, apologize for offending anyone accidentally, don't do it again and move on. If people wanted to escalate the situation (call for her to be fired etc.), I think they're simply petty, and if the school and teacher didn't make an apology I would equally think they were being petty.

[Swift]

Yes, blackface has a terrible history but this person isn't engaging (to the best of my knowledge) in any stereotyping or caricature though. She's wearing dark makeup because the person she's dressing up as is darker and she wants to look like her, just as the other guy is rocking a soul patch because that's what his guy looks like.

Does anybody honestly think that this woman put on dark makeup because she hates black people?

[Oling_Roachinen]

No, I don't believe anyone believes she put it on because she hates black people. But that doesn't mean she didn't offend anyone and its pretty reasonable for someone to be offended by blackface. I don't really believe this is a case of faux outrage, again it's roots lie in racism - even if the intention of this lady was no where near racist. To me, it's not completely different to the people arguing (and more importantly, believing) that the Confederate Flag is about the south and isn't racist.

There's a fine line, RDJ was able to pull it off in Tropic Thunder with little backlash (I believe) - but it was also pretty heavily satirized in the movie itself. More people seemed up in arms at the use of the word ######ed in the movie at the time.

I'm someone who will never get up in arms yelling "cultural appropriation" because someone wore a prom dress with Asian influence, but I do think that if you're putting on black makeup to appear black, maybe take a second to think if you're going to offend anyone. Regardless of intention, we're at a point where if you wear blackface to appear black (or other races), you're going to offend a large population. Maybe for some, that's going to be a point of the costume, similar to going as a pedofile priest, and in their private life it might be worth the risk. But she's a teacher, she shouldn't be wearing a costume that's going to offend. It would have taken far less effort to simply go without the blackface, and if the 'accuracy' of her costume was more important than not offending anyone, especially her students, that would have made her a pretty ####ty teacher. I completely agree it was an accident and the apology saying as much should be the end of this (though I doubt it will be).

[Swift]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

I'm someone who will never get up in arms yelling "cultural appropriation" because someone wore a prom dress with Asian influence, but I do think that if you're putting on black makeup to appear black, maybe take a second to think if you're going to offend anyone. Regardless of intention, we're at a point where if you wear blackface to appear black (or other races), you're going to offend a large population. Maybe for some, that's going to be a point of the costume, similar to going as a pedofile priest, and in their private life it might be worth the risk. But she's a teacher, she shouldn't be wearing a costume that's going to offend. I completely agree it was an accident and the apology saying as much should be the end of this (though I doubt it will be).

Agreed that it's not the smartest move, but I do think there's a difference in dressing up as a celebrity over dressing up as generic black person.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Education Minister David Eggen added his voice to those criticizing the staff member's conduct.

"It's inappropriate behaviour that doesn't belong in schools," Eggen said Monday. "It sets a bad example, and I found it very distrubing."

I do have an issue with Eggen on this. Why the need to escalate the incident with inflammatory language? You were very disturbed? Going to suffer PTSD from the photo, David?

She's a teacher who, at worst, made a mistake. How hard would it be to simply say "We are aware a teacher dressed up as a black celebrity and in doing so was unintentionally offensive. This costume was a mistake and has no place in schools. We are glad that EIPS is taking action to educate the individual and others while issuing an apology." Nope, the Education Minister needs to make this a big deal instead.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by icecube

Blackface, redface, etc. is in very bad taste and you open yourself to criticism or workplace discipline if you're gonna go there, regardless if you're dressing up as an actual person. People should know this by now.

What people should know is that there will be backlash, whether it's justified or not - and this is a case where it isn't. This is not the same thing as racist blackface and it's neither fair nor intelligent nor useful to treat it as such.

[RichKlit]

Nm

[WhiteTiger]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

I do have an issue with Eggen on this. Why the need to escalate the incident with inflammatory language? You were very disturbed? Going to suffer PTSD from the photo, David?

She's a teacher who, at worst, made a mistake. How hard would it be to simply say "We are aware a teacher dressed up as a black celebrity and in doing so was unintentionally offensive. This costume was a mistake and has no place in schools. We are glad that EIPS is taking action to educate the individual and others while issuing an apology." Nope, the Education Minister needs to make this a big deal instead.

But, if he doesn't condemn it in the strongest language he can, then everyone goes after him as a closet racist who's ok with white folks dressing up in blackface... He really can't win here.

[CliffFletcher]

Coloring your skin =/= blackface. Blackface is a very particular sort of makeup and theatrical routine that exaggerates African features as a form of ridicule.

Spoiler!

People calling this blackface are betraying their ignorance of the history of racism.

[icecube]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Coloring your skin =/= blackface. Blackface is a very particular sort of makeup and theatrical routine that exaggerates black American features as a form of ridicule.

Spoiler!

People calling this blackface are betraying their ignorance of the history of racism.

So it has to be midnight black makeup with exaggerated giant lips to qualify as blackface? I don't think you'll find many black people who would agree with you there?

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by SebC

What people should know is that there will be backlash, whether it's justified or not - and this is a case where it isn't. This is not the same thing as racist blackface and it's neither fair nor intelligent nor useful to treat it as such.

It wasn't all that long ago that our society was using blackface as a way to demean and insult black people, and by not that long ago I mean it still happens today. Who are we to decide what is and isn't still offensive to someone? It shouldn't be seen as unintelligent if someone is still offended by it being used regardless of context. Like you said, there will be backlash. Teachers, of all people, should know this and avoid it. There's no reason for a teacher to be offensive, especially in a classroom setting. I do contend that this was a mistake, should be treated as such and move on, but I do think it was still a mistake.

Reminds me of the cringe video awhile back of that nerdy white teacher (and probably goodhearted) arguing that saying the n-word wasn't racist because he used "a" not "er" and it meant something different, not offensive.

Originally Posted by RichKlit

Good lord as a society we are weak as hell. Real problems real issues in the world and we are up in arms over a costume. I can’t believe how screwed up our priorities have become.

To many people racism is a very real world problem and actions like this are not just seen as costumes. And just because a certain population of our society sees this as an issue, doesn't mean we aren't capable of seeing other issues.

[Wormius]

Does it even have to be paint? Weren’t OJ Simpson masks a thing during Halloween many years ago? Does this extend to that or is this only an issue when makeup is applied to appear black?