Building The 2018/19 Flames Roster

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

Since asking anyone a question on here feels like walking on eggshells lately let me start with: the following question is not sarcastic or snarky in any way.

Why would they have to do that? He has a good contract for 2 more seasons based on what he brings to the ice. Or is it just to ramp up value?

He got 3.5 x 3 as a 27 year old UFA. That is an overpayment, almost by definition. Anyone that wanted him would not have had to offer anything much over 3.5 and no assets.

He was really strong with the Flames 2016-17 just prior to signing his UFA contract. He did not perform as well in 2017-18. He did not make himself important on a team that finished 11 points out of the playoffs. He never played himself into the top-4... like Engelland did for stretches.


Connor Brown is signed for 2.1 x 2. Why would the Leafs take on salary for the Flames #5 d-man?

[savardandjokinen]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

He got 3.5 x 3 as a 27 year old UFA. That is an overpayment, almost by definition. Anyone that wanted him would not have had to offer anything much over 3.5 and no assets.

He was really strong with the Flames 2016-17 just prior to signing his UFA contract. He did not perform as well in 2017-18. He did not make himself important on a team that finished 11 points out of the playoffs.


Connor Brown is signed for 2.1 x 2. Why would the Leafs take on salary for the Flames #5 d-man?

Stone is top 4 on the Leafs, Brown is a 3rd liner on the Leafs with lots of depth coming up the pipeline. Stone is also more reliable than Gardiner and Zaitsev at times. He'd be a good fit on the Leafs

[Harry Lime]

On the Leafs he would be solidly in their second pairing. GG wouldn't slot him on the left side, and he wouldn't play ahead of the 2 Hams.

Don't let slotting fool you into thinking that he isn't a top 4D on most teams.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

On the Leafs he would be solidly in their second pairing. GG wouldn't slot him on the left side, and he wouldn't play ahead of the 2 Hams.

Don't let slotting fool you into thinking that he isn't a top 4D on most teams.

Try to find him a spot in the top-4 on a playoff team...

He was top-4 in Arizona that were consistently far out of the playoffs.

The only time he played top-4 on a playoff team was his time with the Flames 2016-17.

On the Leafs he is up against Dermott for the #4 spot.

The Leafs play so much of a faster game than the Flames played last season it would be hard to see how Stone fits in.

[pepper24]

If the Flames buyout Brouwer how much cap relief do they get from his $4.5MM salary-

[Toonage]

Originally Posted by pepper24

if the flames buyout brouwer how much cap relief do they get from his $4.5mm salary-

$3m

[savardandjokinen]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Try to find him a spot in the top-4 on a playoff team...

He was top-4 in Arizona that were consistently far out of the playoffs.

The only time he played top-4 on a playoff team was his time with the Flames 2016-17.

On the Leafs he is up against Dermott for the #4 spot.

The Leafs play so much of a faster game than the Flames played last season it would be hard to see how Stone fits in.

Anaheim (Lindholm, Fowler, Manson, Stone)
Boston (Krug, McAvoy, Chara, Stone)
Colorado (Barrie, Johnson, Stone, Girard)
Columbus (Jones, Werenski, Stone, Savard)
Minnesota (Suter, Spurgeon, Dumba, Stone/Brodin)
New Jersey (Vatanen, Butcher, Severson, Stone/Moore)
Philadelphia (Gostisbehere, Provorov, Stone, Gudas)
Pittsburgh (Letang, Schultz, 2 of Stone/Maatta/Dumoulin)
San Jose (Burns, Vlasic, Stone, Braun)
Toronto (Rielly, Gardiner, Zaitsev, Stone)
Vegas (Miller, Schmidt, Stone, Mcnabb)
Washington (Carlson, Niskanen, Orlov, Stone)

plus a bunch of non playoff teams

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by savardandjokinen

Stone is top 4 on the Leafs, Brown is a 3rd liner on the Leafs with lots of depth coming up the pipeline. Stone is also more reliable than Gardiner and Zaitsev at times. He'd be a good fit on the Leafs

Stone is criminally underrated on this board. I agree with you. Personally I am hoping we keep Stone and move Brodie out of the D men.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by New Era

I am so happy Treliving is our GM.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by savardandjokinen

Anaheim (Lindholm, Fowler, Manson, Stone)
Boston (Krug, McAvoy, Chara, Stone)
Colorado (Barrie, Johnson, Stone, Girard)
Columbus (Jones, Werenski, Stone, Savard)
Minnesota (Suter, Spurgeon, Dumba, Stone/Brodin)
New Jersey (Vatanen, Butcher, Severson, Stone/Moore)
Philadelphia (Gostisbehere, Provorov, Stone, Gudas)
Pittsburgh (Letang, Schultz, 2 of Stone/Maatta/Dumoulin)
San Jose (Burns, Vlasic, Stone, Braun)
Toronto (Rielly, Gardiner, Zaitsev, Stone)
Vegas (Miller, Schmidt, Stone, Mcnabb)
Washington (Carlson, Niskanen, Orlov, Stone)

plus a bunch of non playoff teams

Epic post!! Sort of like the Oilers having 6 Gios The Flames are so good their #5 is better than all the good teams #4... Listing it must make it so.

[savardandjokinen]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Epic post!! Sort of like the Oilers having 6 Gios The Flames are so good their #5 is better than all the good teams #4... Listing it must make it so.

1. The flames defence was not our problem
2. Our coach misused the defence

On paper our defence is good.

I don’t get why you are calling out “epic posts”, your ideas can be questionable

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by savardandjokinen

I don’t get why you are calling out “epic posts”, your ideas can be questionable

Describing his ideas as questionable is as understating as describing the Grand Canyon as a ditch.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

He got 3.5 x 3 as a 27 year old UFA. That is an overpayment, almost by definition. Anyone that wanted him would not have had to offer anything much over 3.5 and no assets.

He was really strong with the Flames 2016-17 just prior to signing his UFA contract. He did not perform as well in 2017-18. He did not make himself important on a team that finished 11 points out of the playoffs. He never played himself into the top-4... like Engelland did for stretches.

Connor Brown is signed for 2.1 x 2. Why would the Leafs take on salary for the Flames #5 d-man?

Oh... alright then:

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Epic post!! Sort of like the Oilers having 6 Gios The Flames are so good their #5 is better than all the good teams #4... Listing it must make it so.

A better critique might just be to say why Stone isn't better than the current number four on any of those teams, but I suppose that's asking a lot.

As for why the Leafs would make a move for Stone, check out the last game they played. The defensive failures are weighing heavily on them.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

A better critique might just be to say why Stone isn't better than the current number four on any of those teams, but I suppose that's asking a lot.

As for why the Leafs would make a move for Stone, check out the last game they played. The defensive failures are weighing heavily on them.

You do not see that there is no way that Stone is better than Montour?
Carlo and Miller?

Perhaps Stone would respond to the challenge and opportunity to raise his level to Engelland but to ask for justification that he replaces Shea Theodore out of Vegas top 4/5 is not a viable discussion.

Oilers never had 6 equivalents of Gio and Stone is not a lock to be a top-4 D-man on any playoff team.

You look at the list presented and show me who Stone actually replaces in the top-4's.

Just make a clear post that Stone is better than Shea Theodore and document your hockey acumen and judgement.

Or Stone is better than Ryan Murray ( who got picked on Team North America ahead of Dougie H.)

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

On a more face-value level, I also suspect that perhaps the relationship between Huska and Kylington has run its course - a different voice might jump-start some progression. You look at a guy like Brodie and from 18 to 22 he played for:

Todd Watson and his staff at Saginaw
Marty Williamson and his staff at Barrie
Jim Playfair and Troy Ward and their staffs in Abbotsford
Brent Sutter and his staff in Calgary
Bob Hartley and his staff in Calgary

But overall I think he must have picked up different things from those different staffs in the development process. That's only natural. The same for Kulak, who had his junior coaches and then even as a minor pro spent time in the ECHL (Unlike the less successful Wotherspoon and Culkin) before establishing a rapport with Huska.



Kylington has only heard one voice in the last three years and maybe it's time for him to hear a different one. Sometimes coaches like and dislike different parts of a player's game, or have different wrinkles that affect players differently. For established veterans, maybe it doesn't matter, but I think prospects have to take in every bit of every different coach. Jankowski took major strides in his Huska year - so I'm not saying Huska is a bad coach - but at some point Kylington (and for that matter the now forgotten Klimchuk and Poirier) could probably use a reset of sorts. A graduation to 3rd pairing duties could be that.

Defenseman that Huska was at very least involved in preparation to play in the NHL

as assistant

Josh Gorges
Duncan Keith
Shea Weber
Kyle Cumiskey
Alex Elder

As Head Coach

Tyson Barrie
Tyler Myers
Luke Schenn
Damon Severson
Madison Bowey

Kulak


List of coaches that had a good relationship with Kylington :

Huska might be the only guy on that list.

I trust Huska will be best able to best prepare and evaluate Kylington's NHL readiness as much as any coach anywhere.

I would not be adverse to have Huska come up to the Flames as defenseman coach.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

You do not see that there is no way that Stone is better than Montour?
Carlo and Miller?

Perhaps Stone would respond to the challenge and opportunity to raise his level to Engelland but to ask for justification that he replaces Shea Theodore out of Vegas top 4/5 is not a viable discussion.

Oilers never had 6 equivalents of Gio and Stone is not a lock to be a top-4 D-man on any playoff team.

You look at the list presented and show me who Stone actually replaces in the top-4's.

Just make a clear post that Stone is better than Shea Theodore and document your hockey acumen and judgement.

Or Stone is better than Ryan Murray ( who got picked on Team North America ahead of Dougie H.)

See, you could do it after all. For the record, I critiqued your response, not the original post. So I don't have to do anything.

[Roof-Daddy]

I have a feeling that whoever signs Jannik Hansen to a cheap 1 year deal is going to get much more than their money's worth.

Didn't seem to fit in San Jose, good speedy, versatile player.

[Roof-Daddy]

Trade - Troy Brouwer, Sam Bennett, Adam Fox to NYR for Brendan Smith, Mika Zibanejad

Bad forward contract for bad D contract, change of scenery type deal. Bennett and Fox for Zibs

Trade - TJ Brodie, 2018 4th (OTT 108th overall) to CLB for Josh Anderson 2018 3rd (CLB 80th overall)

Top 4 LHD on a good contract for a big young right shot power right winger. D traditionally more valuable than wingers, so Flames move up 28 spots into the 3rd round.

Sign James Neal 5 years, $5 million AAV


Gaudreau - Monahan - Anderson
Tkachuk - Zibanejad - Neal
Ferland - Backlund - Frolik
D. Dube - Jankowski - Foo

Shore - Lazar

Giordano - Hamilton
B Kulak - Hamonic
B Smith - Stone

Andersson

Smith
Rittich/Gillies

If Andersson performs well, look to move Stone for picks early in the season, or keep the depth for injury insurance.

Cap Hit - $74.4 million

[goflamesgo18]

2018-2019 Calgary Flames (Just a very educated guess)


Gaudreau - Tavares - Bennett
Tkachuk - Monahan - Ferland
Frolik - Backlund - B. Tkachuk
Shore - Jankowski - Hathaway

Giordano - Hamilton
Andersson - Hamonic
Kylington - Stone

Smith
Gilles