Gas prices in Calgary

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by zamler

I guess VW cheated for nothing.

They all cheat. VW got caught. Subaru kind of advertises around active, outdoor lifestyles but they cheat just like the rest of them. Surely you can at least count on a company like Subaru to play fair. Right? Maybe not;

https://www.wsj.com/articles/subaru-...ata-1524839111

VAG is the largest auto manufacturer in the world so it's bigger news when they get caught and to be fair their cheating was also larger scale but most other automakers have been caught doing cheating on fuel economy and/or emissions.

[Fuzz]

OK, snark aside, looking back at that study, it is only one form of pollution they test and it is based on having a particulate filter that are known to clog in city driving conditions. They still emit 10x as much NOx as gas vehicles. I also wouldn't be all that surprised of this was another study faked by Volkswagon, or at least fooled by them since they probably did their tests on vehicles with defeat devices.

Hell, just reading the study I find disturbing flaws in their conclusions:

The grey line gives the time-integrated median of the distribution (i.e. from the test start to the denoted time, lower than the time-resolved ratio for much of the cycle due to the high absolute concentrations and low gasoline:diesel THC during the cold start, and below unity, indicating that total gasoline exhaust THC emissions are higher). Note the logarithmic scale in both panels. While THC emissions from diesel cars are up to one order of magnitude higher than gasoline emissions during almost the entire driving period, gasoline emissions are up to two orders of magnitudes higher when the catalyst is cold. Because of the cold start effect, integrated emissions from gasoline cars exceed diesel, even after a journey of several kilometres (~14 km). This effect is more pronounced at −7 °C (SI Fig. S3).

Now, they mention a distance in km, but their chart shows time which is probably a much better indication of how people run their vehicles. After about 300 seconds(5 min) the warm gas is doing far better than the diesel. Sure, the -7 is worse, but I'd argue the majority of vehicles are driven above that anyway. And after 15 minutes it is basically a wash.

I also can't even figure out what vehicles/engines they ran these tests on, or how many they used. Was the sample representative? Who knows!

I did a bit of a search but didn't find any other study that shared their conclusions. So I'm gonna stand by way prior statement, that the study and its conclusions are bull####.

Anyway... stand on a hill for 10 minutes breathing the air while vehicles drive by, and try to convince yourself you can't instantly pick out the diesels as the roll by.

[puckedoff]

Originally Posted by Wormius

First time I have seen somebody called a diesel engine as an insult.

I hope it catches on.

[zamler]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

They all cheat.

On the scale and scope of what VW did, not even close.

[lucky1]

what I really enjoy is when the knuckle draggers chip their Cummin's equipped Dodges or Power stroke Fords or Duramax Chevy's - those things just roll out the black smoke at low rpms - pure unburnt fuel - thanks for that

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by zamler

On the scale and scope of what VW did, not even close.

Like I said VAG is the largest auto manufacturer in the world. Anything they do will be of a larger scale than small companies like Subaru or Mitsubishi do it. Chrysler and GM have done it as well. It's really like blood doping at the Tour de France. Everyone was doing it but it didn't become a big story until the big fish got caught.

[zamler]

It's not like that at all. There is no top down initiative at GM and Chrysler to specifically write software on a platform level to cheat emissions tests. VW did it because they knew it was not otherwise possible to compete with gas and hybrid drivetrains in efficiency, power and drivability.

If there was VW would have tweaked the software and continued using diesel engines as their foundation powerplants. Credit to them they got smart and are going forward with electric.

[81MC]

Has anyone found a reputable, informative, fact based review of the gross 'carbon footprint' or emissions output of an electric vehicle compared to a currently operational gas burner?
It would be a huge scope, but it would very much interest me. Tailpipe emissions are one thing. But I'd be interested in environmental cost of the electricity and battery, right from mining the lithium to prematurely lifecycling vehicles to replace.
After all, light vehicle traditional fuel passenger transportation makes up something like 1/3 of 1/3 of greenhouse gas emissions. If it were between projects like damming the Peace River so people can drive electric behemoths, or people driving sensible, fuel efficient gasoline vehicles, I choose fuel.
Not to rain on the eco parade, but much like the Ethanol push of the 2000s, I do wonder how long before the true cost of 'green' electric cars is established.

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by jayswin

I can not wait for the stupid "FOORDDD" "RAAAMM" written in big block letters on the grill to go out of style on trucks. It's horrible.

Funny thing is people actually order custom grills for other trucks to keep up.

Spoiler!

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by 81MC

Has anyone found a reputable, informative, fact based review of the gross 'carbon footprint' or emissions output of an electric vehicle compared to a currently operational gas burner?
It would be a huge scope, but it would very much interest me. Tailpipe emissions are one thing. But I'd be interested in environmental cost of the electricity and battery, right from mining the lithium to prematurely lifecycling vehicles to replace.
After all, light vehicle traditional fuel passenger transportation makes up something like 1/3 of 1/3 of greenhouse gas emissions. If it were between projects like damming the Peace River so people can drive electric behemoths, or people driving sensible, fuel efficient gasoline vehicles, I choose fuel.
Not to rain on the eco parade, but much like the Ethanol push of the 2000s, I do wonder how long before the true cost of 'green' electric cars is established.

just search for "lifecycle electric car vs gas" you should find a few.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by zamler

It's not like that at all. There is no top down initiative at GM and Chrysler to specifically write software on a platform level to cheat emissions tests. VW did it because they knew it was not otherwise possible to compete with gas and hybrid drivetrains in efficiency, power and drivability.

If there was VW would have tweaked the software and continued using diesel engines as their foundation powerplants. Credit to them they got smart and are going forward with electric.

You need to do some research. GM has also been accused of programming Duramax diesel engines to pass emissions tests and then scale back controls in real-world conditions. Please read;

https://www.businesswire.com/news/ho...heating-Claims

The big difference is that GM only markets the Duramax in North America while VW's scandal was on a worldwide scale. Likely every single automaker has cheated over the years. You can bury your head in the sand if you want but it is what it is.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by 81MC

Has anyone found a reputable, informative, fact based review of the gross 'carbon footprint' or emissions output of an electric vehicle compared to a currently operational gas burner?
It would be a huge scope, but it would very much interest me. Tailpipe emissions are one thing. But I'd be interested in environmental cost of the electricity and battery, right from mining the lithium to prematurely lifecycling vehicles to replace.
After all, light vehicle traditional fuel passenger transportation makes up something like 1/3 of 1/3 of greenhouse gas emissions. If it were between projects like damming the Peace River so people can drive electric behemoths, or people driving sensible, fuel efficient gasoline vehicles, I choose fuel.
Not to rain on the eco parade, but much like the Ethanol push of the 2000s, I do wonder how long before the true cost of 'green' electric cars is established.

The EV thread has a few links to some study's. If I remember correctly using coal fired electricity iEV was a wash or slightly better in total life cycle emissions. Most new electricity is Gas in Alberta therefore in Alberta an EV makes sense.

I think you need to add 25-50% of electric generation capacity in Alberta to go to 100% EV

And the Lithium and other Rare Earth metals supply question at worldwide scale battery requirements has not been resolved.

[Erick Estrada]

How did a "high gas prices in Calgary" thread turn into an EV thread? The amount of EV's and hybrid vehicles in Alberta is so miniscule you can pretty well discount it as nothing relevant in this discussion.

[Fuzz]

Chrysler did it, too.

https://cleantechnica.com/2018/02/05...eating-claims/

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

How did a "high gas prices in Calgary" thread turn into an EV thread? The amount of EV's and hybrid vehicles in Alberta is so miniscule you can pretty well discount it as nothing relevant in this discussion.

It was more a thing of, if I am in the market for a new car is it worth it to enter the EV market.

[DigitalCarpenter]

Originally Posted by Johnny199r

Has anyone purchased a more fuel efficient vehicle recently due to high gas prices?

We picked up our new vehicle yesterday. We didn't buy because of gas prices but our final choice was the vehicle with much better gas mileage.

For us it was between the latest version of our current Sante Fe and the Mazda CX-5.

Mazda's economy is around 8.9 and hyundai's engine was the same stats as our current vehicle (around 12). At least Mazda is constantly trying to improve their engines fuel economy.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Wormius

It was more a thing of, if I am in the market for a new car is it worth it to enter the EV market.

If you can afford it and want to go that direction you may as well kick the tires and test drive some hybrids or EV's.

[CaptainCrunch]

Woke up this morning and looked at my gas gauge, I had 30 km's left.

Please please I said as I turned the key.

Yes gas had dropped from $1.34 to 1.26. So I put in 30 bucks worth which will give me about 10 days of gas.

[stampsx2]

We’re up to $1.38. Exciting times.

$1.60 in Vancouver apparently.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by ken0042

Worth a bump- gas prices are going up to 104.9 today. Fill up if you are low and if you can still find it under 90¢. (84.9¢ seems to be about the lowest.)

What a difference a year makes.