2017/2018 Trade Speculation and Rumors

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

What a joke.

Because some people think moving on from Hamilton could be the right move they are part of the boo-patrol?

I think Dougie is a good player but I think the Flames should try and cash in if they can because I don’t think he is as good as some people on here do. I think the Flames need another elite or potentially elite piece up front and I think Dougie is the only way to add that without Tavares magically signing here.

I think the boo patrol is more the group that is trying to find reasons why even if they choose to move him they won't get much because he's not actually very good.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Kovaz

Hamilton spends 90% of his ice time with Giordano, which makes it difficult to evaluate him as an individual player. Brodie was a top-10 D in the league until he was separated from Gio, and I'd wager we'd see a similar drop-off if those two were separated. That's really the crux of the argument: if Hamilton's trade value around the league is "a very good top pairing defenseman", but he's merely an offensive specialist being propped up by Gio, then we could get more than he's worth by trading him.

I don't think anybody is arguing against Gio-Hamilton's excellence as a pair, but if you think that's just Giordano being Giordano, and you can get a Taylor Hall or a Ryan Johansen for him, then that's a trade you'd have to take a long look at. Especially if you believe Gio-Brodie can be just as good on the top pair and someone like Kylington, Kulak, or Valimaki could step into the top-4 with Hamonic.

They've played together so much it's hard to break the data down, but if you do you'd see

2017-18
They were equal when apart (both 53.3% CF%)

2016-17
Hamilton was better without Giordano than Giordano without Hamilton (52.5% v 47.3%)

Brodie and Giordano on the other hand

2016-17
Brodie 49.6% without Giordano, Giordano 54.5% without Brodie

2015-16
Brodie 48.6% without Giordano, Giordano 50.8% without Brodie

2014-15
Brodie 39.2% without Giordano, Giordano 43% without Brodie

Much easier to see Giordano helping Brodie than Hamilton.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Strongly agree with the winger comment above. Dougie is worth more than any winger in the league. Only winger trade I have liked so far is mark stone + 4th (brady Tkachuk) for hamilton and bennett

Dial it back. Dougie is not worth more than any winger in the league.

This debate has cases a gap that has made both sides of the argument push the limits of how good/bad Hamilton is.

If the Leafs were willing to do Marner for Hamilton straight up the Flames should pounce on that deal in my opinion.

I think Gaudreau >>Hamilton and Marner is on his way to being the right handed Gaudreau. He has put up more impressive numbers than Johnny at the same age

Nylander is a right wing thst could be a centre down the road but I would want a draft pick attached to him if the Flames pulled that trigger. I definitely feel like It is one of those 2 thst the Flames should try and acquire for Dougie

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I think the boo patrol is more the group that is trying to find reasons why even if they choose to move him they won't get much because he's not actually very good.

I maybe took some offense to the original comment because I am for trading Dougie. My reasoning has everything to do with his value and the fact I think something is not quite right with him. If they keep him I won’t be sad at all as he has produced in his 3 years here

[VilleN]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Strongly agree with the winger comment above. Dougie is worth more than any winger in the league. Only winger trade I have liked so far is mark stone + 4th (brady Tkachuk) for hamilton and bennett

Dougie is worth more than Laine? Gaudreau? Kane? Hall? Kucherov? Wheeler? Benn? ... gotta disagree with you on that. I like Dougie, but I'd trade him straight up for any of the above in a heartbeat...

[Heavy Jack]

What about packaging Hamilton with Stone and a D prospect for Marner and Gardiner?

Hamilton + Stone + Fox for Marner + Gardiner + 18 1st?

Helps Toronto with their top pairing ~ Rielly/Hamilton ~ Helps them find a suitable and younger replacement for Polak with Stone and adds a D prospect to an ok d prospect pool with the likes of Dermott, Liljegren, Carrick.

Flames get a D back in Gardiner who has warts but should be able to play the game Peters likes his D to play and we get a top RWer to pair with Johnny/Mony or potentially even Tkachuk/Tavares


Thoughts?

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Heavy Jack

What about packaging Hamilton with Stone and a D prospect for Marner and Gardiner?

Hamilton + Stone + Fox for Marner + Gardiner + 18 1st?

Helps Toronto with their top pairing ~ Rielly/Hamilton ~ Helps them find a suitable and younger replacement for Polak with Stone and adds a D prospect to an ok d prospect pool with the likes of Dermott, Liljegren, Carrick.

Flames get a D back in Gardiner who has warts but should be able to play the game Peters likes his D to play and we get a top RWer to pair with Johnny/Mony or potentially even Tkachuk/Tavares


Thoughts?

I just don't like it. I don't like trading Hamilton, Stone and Fox (completely decimating our organizational depth at the position) for a winger, a downgraded defenceman and a 1st.

I much prefer the idea of trading Andersson for an equal/higher quality winger at the same stage of development (Sprong could be a good grab, Kapanen would fit), go after Kane in free agency, and then possibly re-shuffling how the NHL depth looks:

Giordano - Brodie
Valimaki - Hamilton
Stone - Hamonic
Kulak

Or trade Andersson and Brodie to bring in the additional help up front, and still go after Kane up front.

Giordano - Hamilton
Valimaki - Hamonic
Kulak - Stone
Wotherspoon

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Heavy Jack

What about packaging Hamilton with Stone and a D prospect for Marner and Gardiner?

Hamilton + Stone + Fox for Marner + Gardiner + 18 1st?

Helps Toronto with their top pairing ~ Rielly/Hamilton ~ Helps them find a suitable and younger replacement for Polak with Stone and adds a D prospect to an ok d prospect pool with the likes of Dermott, Liljegren, Carrick.

Flames get a D back in Gardiner who has warts but should be able to play the game Peters likes his D to play and we get a top RWer to pair with Johnny/Mony or potentially even Tkachuk/Tavares


Thoughts?

So then we have Gardiner and Brodie on defence? Mike Smith with 6.00 GAA.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Heavy Jack

What about packaging Hamilton with Stone and a D prospect for Marner and Gardiner?

Hamilton + Stone + Fox for Marner + Gardiner + 18 1st?

Helps Toronto with their top pairing ~ Rielly/Hamilton ~ Helps them find a suitable and younger replacement for Polak with Stone and adds a D prospect to an ok d prospect pool with the likes of Dermott, Liljegren, Carrick.

Flames get a D back in Gardiner who has warts but should be able to play the game Peters likes his D to play and we get a top RWer to pair with Johnny/Mony or potentially even Tkachuk/Tavares


Thoughts?

3 right shot D going out is too much of a gut punch

Gardiner has the Pacioretty problem of needing a contract extension next summer and likely costs $5+M long term

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by VilleN

Dougie is worth more than Laine? Gaudreau? Kane? Hall? Kucherov? Wheeler? Benn? ... gotta disagree with you on that. I like Dougie, but I'd trade him straight up for any of the above in a heartbeat...

Given contract considerations, I think you could argue the bold.

Wheeler has one more year until UFA. Amazing contract for that last year, but moving out a top pairing young defenseman for one year?

Kucherov, likewise, has one year left on his contract but is then an RFA for a year. So at least you can force two years, but his (likely) long-term contract could be scary. This one is most hard to argue though.

Kane and Benn make 10.5M and 9.5M, respectively, and were under a point-per-game this season. If Kane, especially, doesn't bounce back somewhat those aren't amazing contracts. Especially as they go until they are 34-35. If they regress at all, even to ~70 point producers, those are albatrosses.

[VilleN]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Given contract considerations, I think you could argue the bold.

Wheeler has one more year until UFA. Amazing contract for that last year, but moving out a top pairing young defenseman for one year?

Kucherov, likewise, has one year left on his contract but is then an RFA for a year. So at least you can force two years, but his (likely) long-term contract could be scary. This one is most hard to argue though.

Kane and Benn make 10.5M and 9.5M, respectively, and were under a point-per-game this season. If Kane, especially, doesn't bounce back somewhat those aren't amazing contracts. Especially as they go until they are 34-35. If they regress at all, even to ~70 point producers, those are albatrosses.

I'll agree with you on Benn and Kane... Wheeler I'd probably still trade for, if you had some assurance he'd re-sign. Kucherov; I definitely would do that deal. As for the unbolded, I think you'd be pretty crazy not to trade Dougie straight up. Imagine what Laine would do for this team?

[Mattman]

Hamilton is at the least worth a Johansen, Hall or a Marchand. You know? Not inherently a superstar by any means, but is a scoring threat that you can place on your 1st line and will improve the overall forward group.


(Not implying we trade for Marchand)

[ricardodw]

It seems that the consensus on this thread is much the same that the majority of CP posters ( me included) had last summer going into the season.

This team as assembled is ready to become a serious contender.

The biggest problem is that they have too many quality NHL d-men and too many prospects just waiting to play top-4 minutes.

All the pieces are in place with the exception of a top 6 RW that maybe Versteeg can fill if he comes back from injury. Otherwise sign Taveres and move Backlund/Jankowski to the best #3/4 centres in the league.

There are no viable trades to be made as the overall greatness of the individual Flames players along with the tremendous value contracts should make the team they are trading with give up top-6 / top-4 players that are under ELC or RFA status and some draft picks as well.

2016-17 It was all on Elliott (and Brouwer)
2017-18 It was all on coaching (and Brouwer)

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Given contract considerations, I think you could argue the bold.

Wheeler has one more year until UFA. Amazing contract for that last year, but moving out a top pairing young defenseman for one year?

Kucherov, likewise, has one year left on his contract but is then an RFA for a year. So at least you can force two years, but his (likely) long-term contract could be scary. This one is most hard to argue though.

Kane and Benn make 10.5M and 9.5M, respectively, and were under a point-per-game this season. If Kane, especially, doesn't bounce back somewhat those aren't amazing contracts. Especially as they go until they are 34-35. If they regress at all, even to ~70 point producers, those are albatrosses.

I am just baiting / trolling you: where does Hamilton rank on the Jets RD Byfuglien / Trouba / Myers?

[activeStick]

So basically, the Flames need scoring (from the forward group), so they should move Hamilton out for that scoring because he's the only player on this team with that sort of value that would command that kind of return (big reason is because he is a defenceman who can score). Flames have some kids with potential in the system in Valimaki, Andersson, Kylington who will just have to make the jump next season as permanent bottom pairing defencemen since Hamilton's departure from the top pairing shifts Brodie up to the top pairing likely (a gamble, given his play last 2 years), and either Stone, Kulak or one of the kids to the 4-hole...

Sounds like a plan.

[Scroopy Noopers]

I believe we can pretty much forget about moving Hamilton for something that includes a pick in this years draft. I imagine the Flames will see how they fare in free agency prior to making a big move like that.

[Yrebmi]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

It seems....[snip]
There are no viable trades to be made as the overall greatness of the individual Flames players along with the tremendous value contracts should make the team they are trading with give up top-6 / top-4 players that are under ELC or RFA status and some draft picks as well.

2016-17 It was all on Elliott (and Brouwer)
2017-18 It was all on coaching (and Brouwer)

Obviously my sarcasm detector has gone off on that one.

The majority of CP does thinks there are viable trades to be made.
That doesn't mean we need to force a trade like Edmonton did for Larson.
That doesn't mean we need to undervalue our players nor their contracts in the name of non-homerism.

The Calgary Flames under performed last year. The team on paper looks pretty good as is, and with a new coach could reach potential.
We have pieces that other teams covet. We have some positions of strength and some of weakness. Of course there are viable trades to be made.

[calgaryfox]

It amazes me that some CP'ers solely use statistics to justify a players' value to the team. Sure, Hamilton has great offensive numbers, but to me, he just doesn't pass the 'old school' eyeball test to qualify him as an elite defenseman earning north of $6m.

His defensive deficiencies cause as many goals against as he scores, either directly or indirectly. I agree that he's still young, but he has over 400 NHL games under his belt and doesn't seem to learn for his mistakes.

From what I see, his defensive hockey IQ is a "C" at best and his lack of body positional awareness is brutal to watch and leads to a ridiculous amount of bonehead penalties.

Passing is dire, "C" .He continually gives away possession by sending knee high passes out of the zone - or icing the puck.

Physicality - C-. Despite his size, he does not dominate, or intimidate.

I wouldn't lose any sleep if Flames traded Dougie for a much needed top RW to add 25+goals and 60 points and bring in a solid DEFENDER which would also reduce the amount of goals against.

I guess I'm just not a Dougie fan and feel that the return we could get for him right now could potentially give us the right tools to be a contender next year.

[Scroopy Noopers]

How do we get a top forward AND a solid defender for a C player?

I understand the argument to use him as a trade chip. I don’t understand the low ranking by the side that isn’t a big fan of Dougie, but assume the league is missing what they are seeing.

[Nelson]

I think we should keep Dougie Hamilton because I think he has untapped offensive potential and will consequently get less than fair value in a trade, especially because history suggests you usually get less than fair value for star players. Teams (Peter Chiarelli) usually regrets trading players like Phil Kessel, Tyler Seguin, Blake Wheeler, Taylor Hall, and Jordan Eberle.

However, if the Flames could actually get
-Mark Stone and the 4th OA for Hamilton,
-Nikita Kucherov,
-Connor McDavid,
-the 1st OA pick, or
-Nathan MacKinnon,
yeah, I would consider it.

I think we should be open to anything because Dougie Hamilton is not Bobby Orr, Mr. Perfect, Potvin, or even Chris Pronger. But the Flames should take a passive approach here. Let the offers come to them and, if a ridiculous trade war begins, let it happen.