Hart finalists, no McDavid

[crapshoot]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

It's a huge price and you do it anyway because he's that good. Look at the Oilers with McDavid on the ice vs off over the past two seasons. They're terrible when he isn't playing. When he is, they range from "very good" to "2008 Detroit Red Wings good". There are very few teams that would balk at that price. You'd have to be pretty terrible. Ottawa, Montreal, maybe Buffalo, Detroit, Vancouver, that's about it. And some of those probably take him just for the marketing value.

I don't really agree with you that you do it anyway because he's that good at hockey. Judging by pure hockey skill or counting numbers or whatever I don't believe that McDavids contract is that great by any means. Unavoidable due to hype and politics of course, but not great. The perception of McDavids market value is furiously inflated by the hype, and even if someone would hypothetically pony up 14 million per year for him doesn't mean that they should, and certainly not from a pure hockey perspective.

I do agree with you that you might very well do it for marketability though, because McDavid is a fantastic asset to garner exposure for your team, and also because it's a great luxury to build a team around that one coveted centrepiece. However, as Peter Chiarelli has hilariously provided us ample evidence of, that can be one hell of a trap if the people running the team are complete morons.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by jlh2640

If iginla doesn’t win it with the year he has in 02. Bozo the clown up north doesn’t even deserve to be nominated. He wasn’t even dominating this year until that team was eliminated anyways.

Bingo.

If McDavid was 20 points up on the rest of the pack and dominated all year then give it to him but that wasn't how it happened.

Mackinnon was identical in PPG, and Giroux, Hall, Malkin, Kucherov, Marchand were all within spitting distance - so not like just points were enough to put him over the top over the course of the whole season.

Then you also have to consider when he got his points.

As of Feb. 1st McDavid was 13th in points and 77th in goal scoring - the team was already 3rd last in the conference and 12 points out of a playoff spot - so at that point their season was pretty much over.

Then he decided to go on his "Historical" run. He put up 26 goals (1st) & 54 points (1st) in his final 33 games beating the next closest players by 10 and 9 points (Hall & Giroux) over that time.

But there lies the problem. Who gives a ####. His team was eliminated already and he went into selfish points mode.

You'd think with those stats his team would have had a great end to the season though right? Nope wrong.

The Oilers went 14-16-3 in that time - still only good enough still to be 11th in the division over that hot streak. So his "heroic" efforts still didn't even result in many more wins for the team - and they still finished 6 points behind any of the teams that made the playoffs over that 33 game stretch. Moved up one whole position from 3rd last in the west at Feb. 1st to 4th last at the end of the season.

[Jacks]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

But there lies the problem. Who gives a ####. His team was eliminated already and he went into selfish points mode.

The whole team and most of the fans were in Mcpoints mode. There were many nights where he had multiple points and was still a -2 or -3.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Jacks

The whole team and most of the fans were in Mcpoints mode. There were many nights where he had multiple points and was still a -2 or -3.

Agree - pretty sure the whole team strategy over the last 25 games was "Get McDavid the Art Ross trophy".

[Textcritic]

What a timely bump.

I was just on my way home from a working breakfast when I happened to overhear a conversation on local radio about Sidney Crosby's untouched playoff hockey dominance, and then an argument about whether he is still the best player on the planet. Donny Taylor maintains that in terms of sheer skill, McDavid is better, but it is Crosby's "tenacity" that sets him apart in the playoffs.* Bob Marjanovich countered by pointing out that McDavid was a total non-factor in last year's playoffs.


* I personally find this explanation ridiculous, as it badly sells short Crosby's incredible on-ice intelligence and vision as a player—qualities he possesses in spades which McDavid cannot touch. This was on full display in today's WHC game as we witnessed in monotonous succession Dummy McDavid's attempts over-and-over to carry the puck down the wing or up the middle of the ice and straight into both opposing defensemen.

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

What a timely bump.

I was just on my way home from a working breakfast when I happened to overhear a conversation on local radio about Sidney Crosby's untouched playoff hockey dominance, and then an argument about whether he is still the best player on the planet. Donny Taylor maintains that in terms of sheer skill, McDavid is better, but it is Crosby's "tenacity" that sets him apart in the playoffs.* Bob Marjanovich countered by pointing out that McDavid was a total non-factor in last year's playoffs.


* I personally find this explanation ridiculous, as it badly sells short Crosby's incredible on-ice intelligence and vision as a player—qualities he possesses in spades which McDavid cannot touch. This was on full display in today's WHC game as we witnessed in monotonous succession Dummy McDavid's attempts over-and-over to carry the puck down the wing or up the middle of the ice and straight into both opposing defensemen.

Agree completely and just want to add that Team 1040 on-air personnel are awesome. The Moj, Donny, Matt etc.

[midniteowl]

[Donny Taylor maintains that in terms of sheer skill, McDavid is better,]

I don't understand, "in terms of sheer skill", what sheer skill was he talking about? McDavid is fast, and he is.....fast. What other skills does he possess that are clearly better than Crosby?

[Sutter_in_law]

Originally Posted by midniteowl

[Donny Taylor maintains that in terms of sheer skill, McDavid is better,]

I don't understand, "in terms of sheer skill", what sheer skill was he talking about? McDavid is fast, and he is.....fast. What other skills does he possess that are clearly better than Crosby?

Crossovers, crossovers and crossovers to name a few. Have you seen his crossovers? dude can flat out crossover more than any other player in the league.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by midniteowl

[Donny Taylor maintains that in terms of sheer skill, McDavid is better,]

I don't understand, "in terms of sheer skill", what sheer skill was he talking about? McDavid is fast, and he is.....fast. What other skills does he possess that are clearly better than Crosby?

I am fairly certain that Taylor believes McDavid does virtually everything just as well—if not better than Crosby, but that Crosby edges him out by being more "gritty," or "tenacious," or he just flat out works harder.

It is an embarrassing insult to how great Crosby is at just about everything—most particularly, it undersells his incredible in-game anticipation, and his exceptional on-ice vision. McDavid skates extremely fast and he has really good hands that can keep up with his feet, but that is pretty much as deep as the well goes.

[iloveicedhockey]

Originally Posted by midniteowl

[Donny Taylor maintains that in terms of sheer skill, McDavid is better,]

I don't understand, "in terms of sheer skill", what sheer skill was he talking about? McDavid is fast, and he is.....fast. What other skills does he possess that are clearly better than Crosby?

I don't know if he's seen how often Crosby has batted the puck out of mid air recently, including one where he teed himself up. Or the goal last year where he roofed it top shelf with one hand (full stretch) while holding off the defender with the other. There aren't many in the league who can do those things at all, let alone on a regularly basis.

The good news is, when all is said and done and mcdavid has no cups to Crosby's three or four or more, the argument will be pretty easy.

[Jason14h]

Somehow Crosby has actually become underrated in the league.

[FireGilbert]

I had a bigger post typed out but it was repeating what others had said: McDavid is elite offensively but Crosby is the far better all around player.

Now McDavid is still young and could one day be as good as Crosby is now if he improves on face offs and two way play while cutting down on trying to go one on one. I can’t see this happening on the Oilers though where putting up points and getting big contacts seems to be preferred over winning.

[gamesaver]

The difference is this: McDavid is a scorer, but Crosby is a winner. Crosby doesnt want to score highlight reel goals, he will do whatever it takes to win the game. He affects the game in all aspects. McDavid seems to think he has to skate circles around everyone. Crosby understands he doesnt have to, there are smarter, more efficient ways to turn the tables in your favor.

[Redrum]

Crosby hasn't missed the playoffs since 2006 was it? Last time the Coilers made it until last year haha. As we know that is a looooong time. He can't give it everything he has during the season. In fact by now he probably can't afford to give much at all. Probably because he doesn't give a damn about consolation prizes like Hart or Rocket Richard or whatever. By now I'm sure all that is pretty meaningless after getting a few of the real prize. Along with the whole team really. Notice how they haven't finished all that high in regular season but still win the cup? They're so used to leaving a lot in the tank by now.

Though saying that I'm hoping for a bit of change. Pittsburgh have enjoyed more than enough success for sucking so bad 15 years ago.

[Svartsengi]

Steve Yzerman got clued in by his coach Scotty Bowman that you don't win by putting up 130 points and forgetting about the other parts of the game. Yzerman became a multiple cup champion by putting 80-90 points and being a 200 foot player. Doubt Edmonton has anybody on staff like Scotty Bowman maybe Connor figures it out maybe not.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by iloveicedhockey

I don't know if he's seen how often Crosby has batted the puck out of mid air recently, including one where he teed himself up. Or the goal last year where he roofed it top shelf with one hand (full stretch) while holding off the defender with the other. There aren't many in the league who can do those things at all, let alone on a regularly basis. .

He’s also seen more long term injuries than any star player I can remember. High ankle sprain, long concussion issues, slap shot to the face... I’m sure I’m forgetting a few... and he still does the same incredible things and you only find him in the hard areas.

[browna]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Bingo.

If McDavid was 20 points up on the rest of the pack and dominated all year then give it to him but that wasn't how it happened.

This is the best analysis of all. But, only as proof to the idiots and media that he should be an mvp.
McDavid and his ability is stil being wasted, being tied to that franchise and the overbearing behind the scenes voices that are still trying to pull the strings from the shadows.

He will not get better/develop for numerous reasons, while with that franchise. This isn’t news, I probably said the same thing on the lottery day. His growth will be stunted as so many very good junior players have there. None of those guys like Hall or Yak or Drai or RNH or Eberle etc have shown the ability over the years up there that McDavid has, yet here 2 years removed, Hall restarts his projected development curve thet he had out of junior, years later, and away from the meddling Oilers, and is a strong mvp candidate.

I don’t see any way out of there for McDavid however for another 5 years, so will probably never see what the guy could’ve been if he had a proper franchise to let him grow while still dominating.

[CaptainCrunch]

Crosby - "Sorry that your team is horrible and you missed the playoffs and didn't get nominated for the hart trophy kid"

Connor sniffling - "Can I have some ice cream?"

Crosby - "Sure champ"

Connor - "With sprinkles?"

Crosby - "Sprinkles are for winners"

[Oil Stain]

Originally Posted by Redrum

Crosby hasn't missed the playoffs since 2006 was it? Last time the Coilers made it until last year haha. As we know that is a looooong time. He can't give it everything he has during the season. In fact by now he probably can't afford to give much at all. Probably because he doesn't give a damn about consolation prizes like Hart or Rocket Richard or whatever. By now I'm sure all that is pretty meaningless after getting a few of the real prize. Along with the whole team really. Notice how they haven't finished all that high in regular season but still win the cup? They're so used to leaving a lot in the tank by now.

Though saying that I'm hoping for a bit of change. Pittsburgh have enjoyed more than enough success for sucking so bad 15 years ago.

Malkin has never missed the playoffs.

Ergo, Malkin is better than Crosby.

[MrMike]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Bingo.



Mackinnon was identical in PPG, and Giroux, Hall, Malkin, Kucherov, Marchand were all within LICKING distance - so not like just points were enough to put him over the top over the course of the whole season.

.