2017/2018 Trade Speculation and Rumors

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

In my 33 years as a Flames fan I don't think I've seen a player with such wildly varying fan assessments of his value. Count me among those who just don't see what the fans in love with Hamilton see. He's an offensive defenceman who finished 21st in defenseman scoring, and fans here are expecting a return greater than what Pronger got. It's crazy.

One thing that strikes me is it's become impossible to talk about how good a player is defensively. I don't know how or why that happened, but it makes it difficult to come close to agreement on a player's value, or even have a worthwhile discussion about it.

I look at Hamilton, when I'm watching him try to handle an opposing forward coming down the wing, or pick up his man in the slot, and I see a player who is poor defensively. Who makes me genuinely nervous. I see a player who either doesn't know what his responsibilities are defensively, or simply isn't dialed in enough to carry them out. And while he's a strong skater lugging the puck up the ice, he looks clumsy skating backwards and in tight, which is why gets turned around so often and resorts to tripping or taking a whack at a forward who's getting around him.

And his coaches seem to see the same player, because they protect him from any situation where they need to stop the other team from scoring. Stud defencemen get PK time. Lots of it. Hamilton gets almost none. And let's not forget, team North America didn't think he was good enough to make the team, even though he had more points than most of the other d-men who made the team.

I don't see a bad defenseman. I see a very good skater with good offensive instincts and a good shot. Once he matures, he could be a Mike Green. But unless he completely transforms how he approaches the game, Hamilton will never be a player a coach confidently puts out against another team's top line while trying to protect a lead in a playoff game.

And I don't have any doubt that when it comes to character issues, where there's smoke there's fire. The brother babysitter thing. The tantrums in practice. The lack of discipline in important games. The defensive slackness. The questions around why he left Boston. Ducking the media on garbage bag day. The fact that when insiders were murmuring about character issues on the Flames, his name kept coming up. It all reeks of entitlement. Dion Phaneuf syndrome. We remember him, don't we? Supremely talented guy who never came close to reaching his potential because his ego prevented him from recognizing that he had anything to learn from coaches and veterans?

I tend to agree. I just keep in mind that he is relatively young and defensemen tend to peak a little later. Having said that, I would definitely put him up for trade if the return was right.

[dino7c]

Hamilton would have a lot more points if the team had forwards who could score and if the moron behind the bench used him on the PP all season.

Guy lead the league in goal scoring...to question his offensive ability is ridiculous.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

In my 33 years as a Flames fan I don't think I've seen a player with such wildly varying fan assessments of his value. Count me among those who just don't see what the fans in love with Hamilton see. He's an offensive defenceman who finished 21st in defenseman scoring, and fans here are expecting a return greater than what Pronger got. It's crazy.

One thing that strikes me is it's become impossible to talk about how good a player is defensively. I don't know how or why that happened, but it makes it difficult to come close to agreement on a player's value, or even have a worthwhile discussion about it.

I look at Hamilton, when I'm watching him try to handle an opposing forward coming down the wing, or pick up his man in the slot, and I see a player who is poor defensively. Who makes me genuinely nervous. I see a player who either doesn't know what his responsibilities are defensively, or simply isn't dialed in enough to carry them out. And while he's a strong skater lugging the puck up the ice, he looks clumsy skating backwards and in tight, which is why gets turned around so often and resorts to tripping or taking a whack at a forward who's getting around him.

And his coaches seem to see the same player, because they protect him from any situation where they need to stop the other team from scoring. Stud defencemen get PK time. Lots of it. Hamilton gets almost none. And let's not forget, team North America didn't think he was good enough to make the team, even though he had more points than most of the other d-men who made the team.

I don't see a bad defenseman. I see a very good skater with good offensive instincts and a great shot. Once he matures, he could be a Mike Green. But unless he completely transforms how he approaches the game, Hamilton will never be a player a coach confidently puts out against another team's top line while trying to protect a lead in a playoff game.

And I don't have any doubt that when it comes to character issues, where there's smoke there's fire. The brother babysitter thing. The tantrums in practice. The lack of discipline in important games. The defensive slackness. The questions around why he left Boston. Ducking the media on garbage bag day. Declining to go to the World Championships in 2016 even though he was healthy and doesn't have family responsibilities, and then (unsurprisingly, given that snub) apparently not even invited this year. The fact that when insiders were murmuring about character issues on the Flames, his name kept coming up. It all reeks of entitlement.

Jay Bouwmeester illicited the same arguments and fan opinions for years.

And he never reached his potential or lead this team anywhere on the end

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Hamilton would have a lot more points if the team had forwards who could score and if the moron behind the bench used him on the PP all season.

Guy lead the league in goal scoring...to question his offensive ability is ridiculous.

I'll add that he's the only Dman on the team that can hit the friken net consistently, I hope Gulutzan and Cameron have unemployment nightmares over what should have been a simple positive to the PP that everyone knew.

One can only hope the new coaching staff figure out playing Gaudreau as the RW on the PP is a similar positive.

[Angelino]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Honest question. For whom on Vegas would you trade Hamilton.

Ideally 1 for 1

Who did they build around?

Please tell me Engelland

Nobody. They have a good coaching staff and system in place with great goaltending. Calgary doesn’t have that. Hamilton is a core player on Calgary he shouldn’t be traded unless there is a ridiculous offer.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Jay Bouwmeester illicited the same arguments and fan opinions for years.

And he never reached his potential or lead this team anywhere on the end

Kind of funny because Bouwmeester was who Hamilton patterned his game after according to pre-draft interviews. Would explain why is he is so soft in the D zone.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Jay Bouwmeester illicited the same arguments and fan opinions for years.

And he never reached his potential or lead this team anywhere on the end

Jay Bouwmeester was a pretty good defensemen overall. Rarely gets injured, plays big minutes and is solid defensively. His issue is that he had a very weak shot from the point and offensively never lived up to his draft billing of being the next Lidstrom. Hamilton has already exceeded anything Bouwmeester has done offensively so it appears to me Hamilton has a much higher ceiling and it's just a matter of him maturing into a better defensive player which should come with time.

[Saqe]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

In my 33 years as a Flames fan I don't think I've seen a player with such wildly varying fan assessments of his value. Count me among those who just don't see what the fans in love with Hamilton see. He's an offensive defenceman who finished 21st in defenseman scoring, and fans here are expecting a return greater than what Pronger got. It's crazy.

One thing that strikes me is it's become impossible to talk about how good a player is defensively. I don't know how or why that happened, but it makes it difficult to come close to agreement on a player's value, or even have a worthwhile discussion about it.

I look at Hamilton, when I'm watching him try to handle an opposing forward coming down the wing, or pick up his man in the slot, and I see a player who is poor defensively. Who makes me genuinely nervous. I see a player who either doesn't know what his responsibilities are defensively, or simply isn't dialed in enough to carry them out. And while he's a strong skater lugging the puck up the ice, he looks clumsy skating backwards and in tight, which is why gets turned around so often and resorts to tripping or taking a whack at a forward who's getting around him.

And his coaches seem to see the same player, because they protect him from any situation where they need to stop the other team from scoring. Stud defencemen get PK time. Lots of it. Hamilton gets almost none. And let's not forget, team North America didn't think he was good enough to make the team, even though he had more points than most of the other d-men who made the team.

I don't see a bad defenseman. I see a very good skater with good offensive instincts and a great shot. Once he matures, he could be a Mike Green. But unless he completely transforms how he approaches the game, Hamilton will never be a player a coach confidently puts out against another team's top line while trying to protect a lead in a playoff game.

And I don't have any doubt that when it comes to character issues, where there's smoke there's fire. The brother babysitter thing. The tantrums in practice. The lack of discipline in important games. The defensive slackness. The questions around why he left Boston. Ducking the media on garbage bag day. Declining to go to the World Championships in 2016 even though he was healthy and doesn't have family responsibilities, and then (unsurprisingly, given that snub) apparently not even invited this year. The fact that when insiders were murmuring about character issues on the Flames, his name kept coming up. It all reeks of entitlement.

Well said.

Almost nobody here wants to talk about it or admit it would affect his value but if a team is trading for him they are getting the complete package- not just an elite offensive defenseman but also a guy who's average defensively and by all accounts has character issues.

He's value is not as high as some here think.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Saqe

Well said.

Almost nobody here wants to talk about it or admit it would affect his value but if a team is trading for him they are getting the complete package- not just an elite offensive defenseman but also a guy who's average defensively and by all accounts has character issues.

He's value is not as high as some here think.

By all accounts has character issues?

What accounts? “Character issues”? Provide some proof of these accounts.

Nitpicking Dougie Hamilton, when all the available evidence actually shows he’s one of the brightest spots on a team that lacks lustre is very misguided. The team has problems, but it’s not the top end of the roster. It’s having horrific depth, which does not include our 24 year old top pairing defenceman.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

In my 33 years as a Flames fan I don't think I've seen a player with such wildly varying fan assessments of his value. Count me among those who just don't see what the fans in love with Hamilton see. He's an offensive defenceman who finished 21st in defenseman scoring, and fans here are expecting a return greater than what Pronger got. It's crazy.

I have to say you are one of the more down fans right now. Down on ownership, down on management, down on the roster, etc. It seems to me you just want things blown up for some reason because that's going to fix everything. Here's the thing; The owners aren't going anywhere, Treliving is still the GM, and the roster is not likely to get changed over the summer give or take a player or two like Brodie and maybe a winger incoming. Yeah it was a bad season but it's over and there's still a lot to like about this roster and if Peters turns out to be the real deal this team will be in a good spot and you will just have to either accept guys like Hamilton and Gaudreau are cornerstones of this franchise going forward especially when it rarely comes down to individual players in a team sport (look at Vegas for example). Honestly I just don't understand why some fans get so miserable when it comes to hating and blaming individual players. Yeah I realize everyone would like to see Brouwer shipped out but the shots I have seen taken at guys like Gaudreau, Hamilton, Brodie, Monahan, etc here is disturbing as Flames fans like to talk like they are better but really we have nothing on Oilers fans. This has been an awful last few months for Flames fans, maybe the worst I have ever seen.

[dino7c]

Jaybo wasn't good enough for Flames fans but was part of the greatest D core ever assembled a year after leaving the team

When a guy plays half the game and against the other teams best he is gonna make mistakes and get scored on from time to time. Doesn't mean he is bad defensively.

[Diemenz]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

By all accounts has character issues?

What accounts? “Character issues”? Provide some proof of these accounts.

Nitpicking Dougie Hamilton, when all the available evidence actually shows he’s one of the brightest spots on a team that lacks lustre is very misguided. The team has problems, but it’s not the top end of the roster. It’s having horrific depth, which does not include our 24 year old top pairing defenceman.

Very well said.
I have mentioned this before but Hamilton is well liked by his teammates. He’s a young top Dman who will only get better. The character issues garbage is really starting to grow old. I feel sorry for people who think the internet is their forum to completely fabricate a story to support their narrative.

[SilverKast]

I don't believe for a second there are character issues with Hamilton. I've seen first hand the amount of time he spends with local charities and how supportive he is.

Maybe some of his on ice characteristics can be nit picked, but off ice he's one of the last guys on the team I'd criticize or question for character issues.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Diemenz

Very well said.
I have mentioned this before but Hamilton is well liked by his teammates. He’s a young top Dman who will only get better. The character issues garbage is really starting to grow old. I feel sorry for people who think the internet is their forum to completely fabricate a story to support their narrative.

Well when a 21 year old wants out of a team that drafted him 3 years earlier, you are going to see the term "character issues" attached to him, rightfully or not.

Thats does not equate to "completely fabricated", but it does allow for interpretation of why and then we end up where it is...why did he want out and why would he not do so again when/if he is unhappy about something.

there was something that went off the rails with either the team, the player or a combination of both. Speculating as to what that is/was without clarification from any of them is fair game.

[iloveicedhockey]

Originally Posted by Saqe

He's value is not as high as some here think.

As fans we often overvalue our own players. Similarly, those down on the team/players have a habit of undervaluing. To say Hamilton is worth what we paid is way off base, see ladd, Hamonic, Hanzal and shattenkirk trades.

[Sylvanfan]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Hamilton would have a lot more points if the team had forwards who could score and if the moron behind the bench used him on the PP all season.

Guy lead the league in goal scoring...to question his offensive ability is ridiculous.

Who questioned his offensive abilities? Who said he's not a good offensive player?

From what I'm reading it's the other areas of his game that people wonder about.

[Sutter_in_law]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Well when a 21 year old wants out of a team that drafted him 3 years earlier, you are going to see the term "character issues" attached to him, rightfully or not.

Thats does not equate to "completely fabricated", but it does allow for interpretation of why and then we end up where it is...why did he want out and why would he not do so again when/if he is unhappy about something.

there was something that went off the rails with either the team, the player or a combination of both. Speculating as to what that is/was without clarification from any of them is fair game.

speculating is fine, throwing around terms like "by all accounts has character issues" is where the problem lies when there is ZERO proof that this is the case.

[Diemenz]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Well when a 21 year old wants out of a team that drafted him 3 years earlier, you are going to see the term "character issues" attached to him, rightfully or not.

Thats does not equate to "completely fabricated", but it does allow for interpretation of why and then we end up where it is...why did he want out and why would he not do so again when/if he is unhappy about something.

there was something that went off the rails with either the team, the player or a combination of both. Speculating as to what that is/was without clarification from any of them is fair game.

They tried 3 different contacts to get him signed. I guess those “character issues” didn’t bother them when they were trying to sign him.

I once had a job in lloydminster which I enjoyed for two years then I started disliking the area. I took a job in Calgary because I wanted to give this location a try and being young and unattached at the time I wanted to try something new and thought it would better suit my future plans. I guess I must have character issues because I didn’t see myself living in lloydminster the rest of my life.

How about we make a list of players who moved in their RFA years and discuss their character issues, because after all them making a decision to not stay with the team must mean they have issues because there is no other possible reason to move.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Jaybo wasn't good enough for Flames fans but was part of the greatest D core ever assembled a year after leaving the team

When a guy plays half the game and against the other teams best he is gonna make mistakes and get scored on from time to time. Doesn't mean he is bad defensively.

One big difference between Jaybo and Hamilton is precisely that, GA.

(Hilarious comparison. Yeah, he wasn’t crappy enough to single handedly drag down Team Canada)

Jay could play as part of an elite team because he can skate with them, didn’t have to be the best player on the team, and had absolutely top centres helping him out. Couldn’t elevate the play of his own flawed team like a Pronger.

Jaybo didn’t just let a few goals slip by, he was right at the very tip top of the league. Hamilton doesn’t have that problem. (He doesn’t play the pk enough, so wouldn’t be, but even then it doesn’t extrapolate)

Jay fit the description some have tried to make of Hamilton - he was overvalued, and not a #1 defense man on a winning team. Hamilton is soft sometimes but it is not translating to a disproportionate number of GA that are hurting the team.

Regarding offense I have seen people saying Hamilton has had career years and taken exception to that - he has been pretty much the same as his last year in Boston. What I will say though is that Gio under Hartley was playing at a 60 point pace for 3 years and with Gulutzan couldn’t hit 40. Maybe a good coach can leverage his offensive skills and elevate Hamilton up to approach that 60 point range.

Long story short, I think that 16 teams made the playoffs without him. He is not untouchable, as D is a position of depth and top line winger is a big hole. I also think that the offer would have to be very substantial to let Tre trade him away.

[Drunk Uncle]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

In my 33 years as a Flames fan I don't think I've seen a player with such wildly varying fan assessments of his value. Count me among those who just don't see what the fans in love with Hamilton see. He's an offensive defenceman who finished 21st in defenseman scoring, and fans here are expecting a return greater than what Pronger got. It's crazy.

One thing that strikes me is it's become impossible to talk about how good a player is defensively. I don't know how or why that happened, but it makes it difficult to come close to agreement on a player's value, or even have a worthwhile discussion about it.

I look at Hamilton, when I'm watching him try to handle an opposing forward coming down the wing, or pick up his man in the slot, and I see a player who is poor defensively. Who makes me genuinely nervous. I see a player who either doesn't know what his responsibilities are defensively, or simply isn't dialed in enough to carry them out. And while he's a strong skater lugging the puck up the ice, he looks clumsy skating backwards and in tight, which is why gets turned around so often and resorts to tripping or taking a whack at a forward who's getting around him.

And his coaches seem to see the same player, because they protect him from any situation where they need to stop the other team from scoring. Stud defencemen get PK time. Lots of it. Hamilton gets almost none. And let's not forget, team North America didn't think he was good enough to make the team, even though he had more points than most of the other d-men who made the team.

I don't see a bad defenseman. I see a very good skater with good offensive instincts and a great shot. Once he matures, he could be a Mike Green. But unless he completely transforms how he approaches the game, Hamilton will never be a player a coach confidently puts out against another team's top line while trying to protect a lead in a playoff game.

And I don't have any doubt that when it comes to character issues, where there's smoke there's fire. The brother babysitter thing. The tantrums in practice. The lack of discipline in important games. The defensive slackness. The questions around why he left Boston. Ducking the media on garbage bag day. Declining to go to the World Championships in 2016 even though he was healthy and doesn't have family responsibilities, and then (unsurprisingly, given that snub) apparently not even invited this year. The fact that when insiders were murmuring about character issues on the Flames, his name kept coming up. It all reeks of entitlement.

Great post! Lots of good evaluation of Hamilton and I agree. What I struggle with is what a young very good offensive d-man who is adequate defensively is worth. To me losing him is worth is a top two line center or a top young winger with upside. Otherwise you keep him.