The intellectual dark web

[burn_this_city]

Originally Posted by icecube

It's the year 2018 and we should still be having debates with neo nazi's on a university campus? Wtf is there to debate about?

Clearly there are impressionable young people out there, otherwise the neo nazi movement would be populated by the elderly exclusively. By forcing their ideas underground you just allow them to propagate uncontested until they are a sizable group. You want to expose these people and make their ideas known and discredited, not deplatform them so they can grow and infect people via the internet.

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by MelBridgeman

Taking a time machine back 70 years ago? Cause that is where you actually find real nazis. Actions speak louder than words.

I live in a country where systemic racism does exist but it is against white people, and I mean that quite seriously.

We must secure the existence of our people and a future for white children.

‘Racist’ is a term which I’ll say right now, and I hope that others go on to quote me for this, ‘racist’ as a white or a European person is not a term you should ever subscribe to,

It is a term of oppression, and it is used to pathologize a very healthy and natural instinct within people. And that is self-preservation. That is the advocacy of their own natural interest.

Soy is giving you bitch tits & Leftism. This isn't a meme, it's literally destroying us from within

If it walks like a duck...

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

If it walks like a duck...

That’s actual an unfortunately good example of a reason TO have debates with nazis. If people are sheltered enough to believe “nazi” is a thing that only existed 70 years ago, shining a light on it now might actually educate them.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

We can demonstrably prove that a physical disability is something a person has or does not have. And the social redress for it is narrow and specific.

Fair point. And this is probably why most people accept that accessible parking spaces are a reasonable policy. But there is still clumsiness and arbitrariness (and no doubt abuse) involved. It isn't a perfect solution.

This specific person should be able to park closer to a store is fundamentally different from this entire gender/race should be treated differently by our laws, our culture, and our political system irrespective of their individual life experiences.

But our economy, our culture, our institutions, and our people treat people differently because their gender/race. Do you not find that to be an illiberal idea? Is not an illiberal that black men in Toronto are more likely to be pulled over? Or that women in the workplace are more likely to be sexually harassed?

If we shouldn't use legislation or other policy tools to address these illeberal facts (even if clumsily or imperfectly), what should we use? What are the alternatives? This is what I've always found so wanting from anti-inflammatory"identity politics" crusaders. What is the alternative solution?

I mean, increased social supports for the poor (regardless of any other characteristic) would be a good start (in my eyes) but that is a lot more expensive than Gladue courts. The increased taxes it would require are usually a non-starter for most people.

[burn_this_city]

If we don't debunk bad ideas on an ongoing basis there will be a resurgence of these ideas with each new generations. Just look at the resurgence of Marxists ideals among millennials that grew up after the collapse of the Soviet Union. We lost the best example that communism is a terrible idea so people aren't educated about it. The amount of young people willing to dispense with freedom of speech, democracy, capitalism because they are oblivious to the value of these ideas and under appreciate the negatives that come with the alternatives.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

The rational approach is to look at why indigenous youths are over nine times more likely to commit crimes than their representation in the Canadian population. Given what we know about crime, it's likely due to being raised in single-parent households, surrounded by substance abuse, with no examples of deferred gratification leading to a better life.

But if being raised in single-parent homes, surrounded by substance abuse, and with no clear incentive to defer gratification and get an education are bad things for Native youth, they're also bad for non-Natives.

So why try to fix things at the age of 23 or 30, when it's too late? And why not deal with the problem by addressing single-parent households, family environments with substance abuse, and incentives to defer gratification for all youth?

Sure, that's a great start. But few people are prepared to make the serious and expensive investment in that type of solution

And it still wouldn't address the other causes of crime and poverty which are specific to first Nations people: the Residential Schools legacy, multi-generational poverty and abuse, and of course good old fashioned discrimination (especially in employment, but also in service providing).

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

If we don't debunk bad ideas on an ongoing basis there will be a resurgence of these ideas with each new generations. Just look at the resurgence of Marxists ideals among millennials that grew up after the collapse of the Soviet Union. We lost the best example that communism is a terrible idea so people aren't educated about it. The amount of young people willing to dispense with freedom of speech, democracy, capitalism because they are oblivious to the value of these ideas and under appreciate the negatives that come with the alternatives.

What Marxist revival? Also, you are conflating Marxism with Communism.

[burn_this_city]

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/mi...ill-2017-11-01

According to the latest survey from the Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation, a D.C.-based nonprofit, one in two U.S. millennials say they would rather live in a socialist or communist country than a capitalist democracy.

What’s more, 22% of them have a favorable view of Karl Marx and a surprising number see Joseph Stalin and Kim Jong Un as “heroes.”

“Millennials now make up the largest generation in America, and we’re seeing some deeply worrisome trends,” said Marion Smith, executive director of the organization. “Millennials are increasingly turning away from capitalism and toward socialism and even communism as a viable alternative.”

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/mi...ill-2017-11-01

According to the latest survey from the Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation, a D.C.-based nonprofit, one in two U.S. millennials say they would rather live in a socialist or communist country than a capitalist democracy.

What’s more, 22% of them have a favorable view of Karl Marx and a surprising number see Joseph Stalin and Kim Jong Un as “heroes.”

“Millennials now make up the largest generation in America, and we’re seeing some deeply worrisome trends,” said Marion Smith, executive director of the organization. “Millennials are increasingly turning away from capitalism and toward socialism and even communism as a viable alternative.”

I don't really know what to say about that. I mean, the poll was conducted by the "Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation".

More importantly, both the poll and the story lump socialism and Communism together. That makes any conclusions about attitudes towards Communism alone invalid.

Also, the only comparisons to aerlier polling indicated that there had been essentially no change in attitudes.

Also, the poll indicates that Ronald Reagan was the most popular answer to the "your personal hero" question.

Lastly, socialism is clearly a alternative to capitalism as an economic and political system and Canada, the United States, and all Western states have a mixture of both.

Otherwise, good source.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Makarov

But our economy, our culture, our institutions, and our people treat people differently because their gender/race. Do you not find that to be an illiberal idea?

Yes. Which is why liberals have been fighting discrimination for decades. But you don't fight illiberalism with another strain of illiberalism. They don't cancel each other out - they just make our society less liberal.

Originally Posted by Makarov

If we shouldn't use legislation or other policy tools to address these illeberal facts (even if clumsily or imperfectly), what should we use?

We should continue using the approach that has resulted in us having the most tolerant, prosperous, and liberal society the world has ever seen - liberalism. It's why our society is better in almost every way than it was 50 or 100 years ago. It's working.

On the topic of racism, for example, in 1968 only 20 per cent of Americans approved of interracial marriage. Today, 83 per cent approve. Clearly we're doing something right.

Originally Posted by Makarov

What is the alternative solution?

Well, there's no solution to the human condition. After all, we're violent, status-seeking primates who for much of our history as a species were yoked to our most brutal instincts. If we reduce murder by 90 per cent there will still be murder. Reduce it by 90 per cent again and there will still be murder. Same with every other human failing.

All we can strive for is progress. The good new is we've made astonishing progress in the last 200 years, and especially the last 50 years. Abandoning liberalism now only makes sense if you don't recognize the progress we've already made, and why we made it. Which, sadly, seems to be the case for a great many on the left today.

[icecube]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/mi...ill-2017-11-01

According to the latest survey from the Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation, a D.C.-based nonprofit, one in two U.S. millennials say they would rather live in a socialist or communist country than a capitalist democracy.

What’s more, 22% of them have a favorable view of Karl Marx and a surprising number see Joseph Stalin and Kim Jong Un as “heroes.”

“Millennials now make up the largest generation in America, and we’re seeing some deeply worrisome trends,” said Marion Smith, executive director of the organization. “Millennials are increasingly turning away from capitalism and toward socialism and even communism as a viable alternative.”

[burn_this_city]

https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2016/1..._12550502.html

This article contrasts the difference of opinion about capitalism, socialism between the different age categories. Same source for the data, I haven't done any analysis on the reliability of their numbers.

The survey found that 38 per cent of millennials hold "very unfavourable" views of communism, fewer than the average across all age categories (57 per cent).

Fewer millennials also have very unfavourable opinions of socialism (15 per cent), compared to a 30 per cent average.

The survey found a similar dynamic around capitalism. Only 42 per cent of millennials have a positive view of the system, compared to 54 per cent of baby boomers and 71 per cent of mature adults.

[PsYcNeT]

Could have something to do with the fact that most millennials are economically worse-off than their parents were at the same age, something something failed by the system something growing wealth disparity something something shrinking middle class.

You're not going to have a favorable view of a system that seems to only perpetuate wealth among the wealthy while your slice of pie grows smaller with each passing generation.

I'll acknowledge there are 500 million factors that play into this (globalization, western world no longer getting fat on the backs of second/third world countries, etc.) but it's the immediate appearance of disparity that is the major player imo.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2016/1..._12550502.html

This article contrasts the difference of opinion about capitalism, socialism between the different age categories. Same source for the data, I haven't done any analysis on the reliability of their numbers.

The survey found that 38 per cent of millennials hold "very unfavourable" views of communism, fewer than the average across all age categories (57 per cent).

Fewer millennials also have very unfavourable opinions of socialism (15 per cent), compared to a 30 per cent average.

The survey found a similar dynamic around capitalism. Only 42 per cent of millennials have a positive view of the system, compared to 54 per cent of baby boomers and 71 per cent of mature adults.

I'm going to guess that, for at least the past 60 years, Yong people have consistently been more sympathetic to "communism" than older cohorts so none of this means very much without comparisons to older polling.

And again, the apparent tendency to conflate socialism (economic system) with Communism (authoritarian political system + economic system) makes the poll rather useless imo.

[opendoor]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/mi...ill-2017-11-01

According to the latest survey from the Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation, a D.C.-based nonprofit, one in two U.S. millennials say they would rather live in a socialist or communist country than a capitalist democracy.

What’s more, 22% of them have a favorable view of Karl Marx and a surprising number see Joseph Stalin and Kim Jong Un as “heroes.”

“Millennials now make up the largest generation in America, and we’re seeing some deeply worrisome trends,” said Marion Smith, executive director of the organization. “Millennials are increasingly turning away from capitalism and toward socialism and even communism as a viable alternative.”

What's wrong with having a favorable view of Karl Marx? Regardless of what you think of communism or socialism as an economic and political model, his work and criticism was groundbreaking and valuable.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2016/1..._12550502.html

This article contrasts the difference of opinion about capitalism, socialism between the different age categories. Same source for the data, I haven't done any analysis on the reliability of their numbers.

The survey found that 38 per cent of millennials hold "very unfavourable" views of communism, fewer than the average across all age categories (57 per cent).

Fewer millennials also have very unfavourable opinions of socialism (15 per cent), compared to a 30 per cent average.

The survey found a similar dynamic around capitalism. Only 42 per cent of millennials have a positive view of the system, compared to 54 per cent of baby boomers and 71 per cent of mature adults.

The survey could have just asked do you benefit from the current labour structure. Inexperienced millennials just entering the system and Boomers being pushed out benefit less than the overall cohort of mature adults.

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

Could have something to do with the fact that most millennials are economically worse-off than their parents were at the same age, something something failed by the system something growing wealth disparity something something shrinking middle class.

You're not going to have a favorable view of a system that seems to only perpetuate wealth among the wealthy while your slice of pie grows smaller with each passing generation.

I'll acknowledge there are 500 million factors that play into this (globalization, western world no longer getting fat on the backs of second/third world countries, etc.) but it's the immediate appearance of disparity that is the major player imo.

Yup. My life isn't what I want it so it's the system that's wrong. That's the new left-wing ideology in a nutshell.

[rubecube]

Young people are turning to socialism because capitalism is failing them and there are relevant, successful, modern examples of socialist governance.

[Ashasx]

...what?

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

Yup. My life isn't what I want it so it's the system that's wrong. That's the new left-wing ideology in a nutshell.

What? I mean, I could say the same about anyone advocating for political change (including, for example, tax cuts).