The Defense Department confirmed that the number in that "incel rebellion" Facebook allegedly written by Minassian was his military service number. We still haven't heard anything regarding motive from the authorities investigating the case, but it's looking more and more likely that this was indeed an Elliot Rodger inspired copycat crime.
Quote:
The cryptic numbers in the Facebook post attributed to Alek Minassian — C23249161 — are the same as his service number with the Canadian military, a defence department source confirmed to the Star Wednesday.
Minassian was in the Canadian Armed Forces between Aug. 23 and Oct. 25, 2017 and did just 16 days of recruit training before he voluntarily withdrew. But on Monday afternoon, the identification number assigned to him by the military appeared in an enigmatic Facebook post that referenced an “incel rebellion” and invoked U.S. mass murderer Elliot Rodger.
The post began circulating on social media shortly after a rented van drove into pedestrians on Yonge St. south of Finch Ave., killing 10 people and leaving 14 injured. Minassian, 25, now faces 10 charges of first-degree murder.
“Private (Recruit) Minassian Infantry 00010, wishing to speak to Sgt 4chan please. C23249161,” read the message. “The Incel Rebellion has already begun! We will overthrow all the Chads and Stacys! All hail the Supreme Gentleman Elliot Rodger!”
While many people have questioned the authenticity of the Facebook post — including media manipulation experts, who warned of online hoaxes in the wake of mass killings — few people can access Minassian’s service number, which is akin to a social insurance number and subject to privacy restrictions. The Facebook post has also been acknowledged by Toronto police and verified as legitimate by Facebook.
What is the purpose of this sort of reply? I seriously doubt that Blankall was being deliberately malicious or even careless. He just happens to be uninformed in this area, as a whole ton of people are. Moreover, those people are generally afraid to ask questions and learn more about an area that is extremely difficult to grasp if you've never dealt with it personally. FlamesAddiction is the norm - no one learns anything about this stuff until it affects someone close to them. As a result, ignorance perpetuates itself.
It seems like a much better policy to try to gently correct someone's erroneous impressions, which might lead them to ask for further information and educate themselves. "I know you probably didn't mean to come off this way, but I think you should know that..." If this was the atmosphere, it would also help people who live with these conditions to talk about them more, alleviating some of the stigma and general confusion surrounding mental illness and autism spectrum disorders.
Less self-righteous sanctimony, please.
I actually don't think my post was misinformed. The intent was actually sympathy towards the perpetrator of this awful act. Based on the accounts from his peers, it sounds like he struggled his whole life with social interaction. I don't think that justifies his actions, but it does make me more sympathetic to him, and paints a different picture than the alt right woman hater some media outlets are making him out to be.
I also think these Insel groups are populated by people who feel like outsiders and bullied kids. They've unfortunately turned to an evil ideology as an outlet, almost like comic book villains. Lumping them in with Trump supporters and further isolating and bullying them is probably not the best way to deal with them though.
My post was not meant to generalize all autistic people, although upon rereading it, I do realize how it could have been taken that way. For that I do apologise. It can be difficult to communicate on message forums.
I actually don't think my post was misinformed. The intent was actually sympathy towards the perpetrator of this awful act. Based on the accounts from his peers, it sounds like he struggled his whole life with social interaction. I don't think that justifies his actions, but it does make me more sympathetic to him, and paints a different picture than the alt right woman hater some media outlets are making him out to be.
See my post above. Minassian's pre-attack Facebook post which says the "incel rebellion has already begun" and namechecks Elliot Rodger has been confirmed as authentic by Facebook, and the military service number in the message was confirmed by the Department of Defence as having been assigned to Minassian during his brief military career. It's incredibly unlikely that someone (like a 4chan troll, for example) could have both hacked his Facebook account to spoof the message and known his service number, so it's a virtual certainty that the post was written by Minassian himself.
I still recommend waiting for word from the investigating authorities before definitively stating that misogyny, toxic masculinity, and sexual frustration was Minassian's motive for the attack, but in light of the evidence we've seen so far pointing in that direction, I'd be incredibly surprised if that wasn't the case.
I'd get that if it was a reaction to the original post, but it was in reply to the guy's further explanation about what he meant. I read that as a demand that Blankall prostrate himself and repent of his trangression. Either way, doesn't affect my first two paragraphs.
Pathos has it's place. Nor do I expect anyone to prostrate themselves; that's projecting. But your right trying to teach would have been more productive, my response was colored by the last time someone had used Autism in an insulting manner which on the forum and for that I apologize to Blank. But I stil feel he crossed a line and then tried to double down, but has since stopped.
So the only role autism really played in this tragedy is that it can reult in extreme social isolation, that leaves such a disenfrachised person very vulnerable to getting seduced and radicalized(imo).
And lastly I would have replied sooner but was in the emergency room for a lot of my day yesterday. Kharma maybe? But ending up so dehydrated you need IV fluids seens a little harsh.
So the only role autism really played in this tragedy is that it can reult in extreme social isolation, that leaves such a disenfrachised person very vulnerable to getting seduced and radicalized(imo).
I know this is a heated topic. I agree my choice of wording was inflammatory. I think that's inherent anytime you use statistics to argue a point about the behaviour of any specific group, and I should have used a different approach.
I also agree with your bolded statement, for the most part. Although I think that Mannasian didn't have a full grasp of the consequences of his actions. I'm basing this on how callous his statements from just prior to the attack were, and not on the characteristics of autistic people as a whole.
Once again, I reiterate that my statement was motivated by sympathy for the Mannasian. As someone who does a lot legal defence work for underprivleged people, I tend to look at things from a perspective of moral culpability. I would definitely hold Mannasian less morally culpable for his actions than the person the media is painting him out to be.
I would definitely hold Mannasian less morally culpable for his actions than the person the media is painting him out to be.
How can you possibly make that assessment based on the limited amount of information that is available at this time? Let's leave determining culpability up to the professionals who are surely performing a proper psych evaluation on Minassian rather than play armchair internet psychiatrist.
Although I think that Mannasian didn't have a full grasp of the consequences of his actions. I'm basing this on how callous his statements from just prior to the attack were,
I disagree a little here, I think he knows the consequences of what he did and that he was trying to aviod them by demanding to be shot.
I wouldn't use the callousness of his statements because young men have a tendancy to be hyperbolic(hi) and the incel community is full of that if not full on histronics. My bet is that extreme statements he made got him more attention, creating a positive feed back loop that lead to his radicalization.
Its kind of creepy how Incel, Red pill, Man going there own way, and Pickup artist movements are treated like religion by some of these men. Feels like notva one of those groups is a health place to hang out.
How can you possibly make that assessment based on the limited amount of information that is available at this time? Let's leave determining culpability up to the professionals who are surely performing a proper psych evaluation on Minassian rather than play armchair internet psychiatrist.
You're right, there are just too many variables. So I wil stop speculating.
How can you possibly make that assessment based on the limited amount of information that is available at this time? Let's leave determining culpability up to the professionals who are surely performing a proper psych evaluation on Manassian rather than play armchair internet psychiatrist.
We are leaving it to the professionals. I'm not going to be personally responsible for making the call. I don't see why my opinion on the subject is any less valid than the people instantly labeling him a misogynist. Although the truth may be a blend of both theories.
Edit: People are also making the opposite conclusion without a psych assessment. Essentially declaring him guilty without trial. Once again, I don't know what the actual answer is, but his behaviour certainly raises suspicions for me, and I think people should hold off with the internet lynching until after the assessment.
We are leaving it to the professionals. I'm not going to be personally responsible for making the call. I don't see why my opinion on the subject is any less valid than the people instantly labeling him a misogynist. Although the truth may be a blend of both theories.
Your opinion is less valid because it's baseless. From everything we know right now, there is absolutely no evidence that he should be found NCR. Maybe that will ultimately come to light later, but it seems extremely premature to say he should be considered anything less than 100% morally culpable for his actions. "But it's been reported he has Asperger's", you might say. So what? Unlike paranoid schizophrenia, for example, Asperger's doesn't make you a psychotic killer unable to distinguish right from wrong.
On the other hand, there actually is evidence -- confirmed to have been written by Minassian himself -- that he was an incel misogynist who drew inspiration for his attack from Elliot Rodger's previous murder spree. In every one of my posts in this thread where I've speculated about his motive, I've always cautioned to wait for the final word from the proper authorities, but no information has been released to date that contradicts this.
Your opinion is less valid because it's baseless. From everything we know right now, there is absolutely no evidence that he should be found NCR. Maybe that will ultimately come to light later, but it seems extremely premature to say he should be considered anything less than 100% morally culpable for his actions. "But it's been reported he has Asperger's", you might say. So what? Unlike paranoid schizophrenia, for example, Asperger's doesn't make you a psychotic killer unable to distinguish right from wrong.
On the other hand, there actually is evidence -- confirmed to have been written by Minassian himself -- that he was an incel misogynist who drew inspiration for his attack from Elliot Rodger's previous murder spree. In every one of my posts in this thread where I've speculated about his motive, I've always cautioned to wait for the final word from the proper authorities, but no information has been released to date that contradicts this.
Firstly, I didn't state that he should be found not criminally responsible. After a guilty verdict, moral culpability plays a role in sentencing. There are degrees to which guilty people are held morally culpable. Even then, I wasn't even talking about moral culpability from the perspective of the court system. I was referring to it in the context of blaming this incident on the alt right, and stating that Mannasian has an allegiance to the movement.
Statements he made about Elliot Rodger aren't relevant, as they still don't speak to what degree Mannasian knows the different between right and wrong (which also exists on a spectrum). That's like saying he knew what he was doing, because he turned the ignition on the van. It's all one long chain of events, and we don't know anything yet about Mannasian's mental capacity.
My argument isn't baseless its based on the callousness of his behaviour, and the description of his upbringing from his peers.
If he has full mental capacity, I'd still feel some degree of sympathy for him, as the description of his upbringing sounded very difficult, and even moreso for someone who was fully with it but couldn't form a single friendship. Either way, it's definitely a situation where society played a large role in the events that led to Mannasian's actions. Hence, the lowered moral culpability (once again, different than ncr).
I have literally not seen anything on MSM or a reputable news source that has suggested this.
Where are you reading this?
Quote:
Originally Posted by PsYcNeT
Ironically, disenfranchised, sexually frustrated and undateable young men are the prime targets for recruitment for groups like ISIS, but they also seem to be flocking in droves to incel/MGTOW communities.
Reddit recently banned r/incel, but they all just set up shop on incel.me and r/braincel after the fact. They've been really riled up since then.
Don't bother unless you're inclined to sift through the dregs of pathetic excuses for mankind.
Remember, #gamergate, MGTOW, TRP, Anti-Feminists and incel are all the same since they are a part of the alt-right, and the supporters should be treated the same as Burakumin.
TRIGGER WARNING:
NSFW!
The neo-Marxists need to de-platform anyone who is accused of wrongthink so they can create the perfect society.
__________________
Tacitus: Rara temporum felicitate, ubi sentire quae velis, et quae sentias dicere licet.
Remember, #gamergate, MGTOW, TRP, Anti-Feminists and incel are all the same since they are a part of the alt-right, and the supporters should be treated the same as Burakumin.
TRIGGER WARNING:
NSFW!
The neo-Marxists need to de-platform anyone who is accused of wrongthink so they can create the perfect society.
You just accused the neo-Marxists of wrongthink.
Crazy, right?
__________________
"Life of Russian hockey veterans is very hard," said Soviet hockey star Sergei Makarov. "Most of them don't have enough to eat these days. These old players are Russian legends."
Remember, #gamergate, MGTOW, TRP, Anti-Feminists and incel are all the same since they are a part of the alt-right, and the supporters should be treated the same as Burakumin.
The neo-Marxists need to de-platform anyone who is accused of wrongthink so they can create the perfect society.
I don't know my political spectrum well enough, which of those groups are neo-Marxists? most of them are on the conservative side (re: Family unit, there are only 2 genders, patriarchy) and most social justice advocates would call them fascists.
__________________
Tacitus: Rara temporum felicitate, ubi sentire quae velis, et quae sentias dicere licet.
