Arena negotiation discussion. UPD: Flames release their proposal

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by stone hands

Iirc the ioc has already said the dome is fine for a venue

This has been debunked. It was careful wording on the IOC's part as they didn't want cause any rifts in local debates. They said the Dome is fine, but you actually need two arenas with large capacity, therefore you do need a new hockey built.

[oldschoolcalgary]

Originally Posted by nik-

But they're all equally to blame.

maybe, it is sure seems like the Flames slapped away the Olive Branch being held out by the City...

at least to me it does...

a better response probably would have been, "We look forward to getting a better understanding with what the City of Calgary is suggesting. If there is some common ground, we would be interested in seeing if there is a way to move the arena process forward with the City."

[Calgary4LIfe]

Flames seem to be taking a page right out of Donald Fehr's playbook.
"If you don't get your way, stop negotiating. Let them negotiate against themselves."

FFS, it gets really difficult to like this ownership group the longer this has dragged on for.

[Roughneck]

Originally Posted by oldschoolcalgary

maybe, it is sure seems like the Flames slapped away the Olive Branch being held out by the City...

at least to me it does...

a better response probably would have been, "We look forward to getting a better understanding with what the City of Calgary is suggesting. If there is some common ground, we would be interested in seeing if there is a way to move the arena process forward with the City."

Hell they could have still taken a dig, tried to gain some upper hand in the perception of the situation, and have a 'positive' statement.

"We are glad there are councilors who care about keeping NHL hockey in Calgary long term, and are looking to opening back up negotiations to create a fair deal for all sides."

Would it irk some people? Sure. But they're already against you. It would help win some hearts and minds, make people think it's the city that walked away from the table, etc. But instead incompetence reigns when it comes to communication about the arena from CSEC. Hundreds of millions of dollars on the line and they can't come up with a decent presentation, can't come up with an infographic, can't add the numbers in their proposals, and can't even come up with a decent press statement. How do these people have jobs?

[Manhattanboy]

Harley Hotchkiss where are you? Sigh.

Murray Edwards can just eff off already. I’ve had enough. Seriously considering not renewing my season tix.

[hatty]

https://globalnews.ca/news/4162333/f...-conversation/

Looks like they are trying to revive the conversation for the new arena.

[Bunk]

Originally Posted by hatty

https://globalnews.ca/news/4162333/f...-conversation/

Looks like they are trying to revive the conversation for the new arena.

City Council:

"We have a fresh perspective"

"The will is there"

"There are new ideas"

"New approach"

"New and various funding frameworks" need to be on the terms of reference

Flames:

"We have no basis on which to believe anything has changed"

Alrighty then.

[RM14]

Originally Posted by Bunk

City Council:

"We have a fresh perspective"

"The will is there"

"There are new ideas"

"New approach"

"New and various funding frameworks" need to be on the terms of reference

Flames:

"We have no basis on which to believe anything has changed"

Alrighty then.

The Flames quote was from Monday..


Council's statement from Tuesday about reaching out to the Flames:

"Davison said he hasn’t yet spoken with the Flames brass about his notice of motion. That’s something the committee would likely do at a later date if it passes come May."

http://calgaryherald.com/news/local-...s-moving-again

[CaptainYooh]

Originally Posted by Bunk

City Council:

"We have a fresh perspective"

"The will is there"

"There are new ideas"

"New approach"

"New and various funding frameworks" need to be on the terms of reference

Flames:

"We have no basis on which to believe anything has changed"

Alrighty then.

Come on now. They do have no basis to respond at all. Flames have presented their funding model proposal. City said no: all public funding contributions must be repaid. Flames said we can't do that here. Thank you, we're done and will not seek lease renewal. It's up to the City now to present a different funding model that offers some non-refundable public money, if they want the franchise to stay. This is the only logical next step. Otherwise, they are done.

[RM14]

I am confused between the two comments from Davison in the Herald article:

Davison said he isn’t in favour of committing more public dollars than what’s been offered by the city to date toward a potential arena

then he says:

He added all options would be on the table if talks restarted.

It’s too important for Calgary to let this go,” he said.

[Bunk]

Originally Posted by CaptainYooh

Come on now. They do have no basis to respond at all. Flames have presented their funding model proposal. City said no: all public funding contributions must be repaid. Flames said we can't do that here. Thank you, we're done and will not seek lease renewal. It's up to the City now to present a different funding model that offers some non-refundable public money, if they want the franchise to stay. This is the only logical next step. Otherwise, they are done.

It’s very hard to present a different funding model if there is literally no negotiation happening. The willingness to talk about a new funding model is explicit in the Notice of Motion. So, I’m puzzled by your statement (and the Flames’)

[Beatle17]

Originally Posted by Locke

The wording of this is so petulant.

"It will be interesting to see what, if anything, the City decides to do."

That is deliberately dismissive.

So what are the Flames supposed to do, there hasn't been any contact from the city as they are discussing a new committee. If the city had approached the Flames recently and said they had some new proposal to discuss, even if it is a minor tweak, then the Flames could respond. To get blindsided by a question about the arena at a coaches hire is cheap by the press.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Beatle17

So what are the Flames supposed to do, there hasn't been any contact from the city as they are discussing a new committee. If the city had approached the Flames recently and said they had some new proposal to discuss, even if it is a minor tweak, then the Flames could respond. To get blindsided by a question about the arena at a coaches hire is cheap by the press.

The first thing the Flames need to do before anything else is fire Ken King. Nothing will get done with this buffoon speaking for the Flames. Such an unlikable guy and a terrible communicator.

[Manhattanboy]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

The first thing the Flames need to do before anything else is fire Ken King. Nothing will get done with this buffoon speaking for the Flames. Such an unlikable guy and a terrible communicator.

Or at least appoint someone new to lead the negotiating team and act as the face of CSEC. I agree King is just awful. His condescending demeanor leaves so much to be desired.

[CaptainCrunch]

So basically the city starts this new committee and goes public with it before even seeing if the Flames are interested?

Its fine if they reached out to the Flames first to say, we're forming a committee and we might have new ideas would you come back to the table.

Instead they basically positioned themselves to make the Flames look like the villains here.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

So basically the city starts this new committee and goes public with it before even seeing if the Flames are interested?

Its fine if they reached out to the Flames first to say, we're forming a committee and we might have new ideas would you come back to the table.

Instead they basically positioned themselves to make the Flames look like the villains here.

If that was their plan, then the Flames response walked into that trap face first.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by nik-

If that was their plan, then the Flames response walked into that trap face first.

Fair enough, it just seems such a bad faith thing to go to the media and announcing this thing before talking to the Flames.

As far as the Flames have said, its the question of are we going to hear something different then the last model, because if its not, then why bother, so the city can say your the bad guys in this?

This to me is just not a good way to get the Flames back to the table, it comes across as disingenuous

Plus after the city starting the process in the media, if the Flames go back to the table and reject the city again, they lose even more.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Fair enough, it just seems such a bad faith thing to go to the media and announcing this thing before talking to the Flames.

As far as the Flames have said, its the question of are we going to hear something different then the last model, because if its not, then why bother, so the city can say your the bad guys in this?

This to me is just not a good way to get the Flames back to the table, it comes across as disingenuous

Plus after the city starting the process in the media, if the Flames go back to the table and reject the city again, they lose even more.

You're reaching.

Bad faith is announcing they have some more ideas and are ready to work on it?

Come on.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Fair enough, it just seems such a bad faith thing to go to the media and announcing this thing before talking to the Flames.

As far as the Flames have said, its the question of are we going to hear something different then the last model, because if its not, then why bother, so the city can say your the bad guys in this?

This to me is just not a good way to get the Flames back to the table, it comes across as disingenuous

Plus after the city starting the process in the media, if the Flames go back to the table and reject the city again, they lose even more.

Originally Posted by nik-

You're reaching.

Bad faith is announcing they have some more ideas and are ready to work on it?

Come on.

First of all, the rumour is that they were basically at an agreement until there was a 'personal conflict.'

That personal conflict has been removed from the City's side, which should be a show of Good Faith.

CSEC has not done the same.

[CaptainCrunch]

I don't believe I'm reaching when I say that the city reached out to the media before the Flames, The common courtesy would be to reach out to the Flames to talk intentions of the negotiation and setting some common ground. instead they're putting the Flames in a lose lose position, of course they're going to decline.