Van hits multiple pedestrians in Toronto

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

There was an article in the Calgary Sun yesterday about Stormy Daniels and how she might be the last famous porn star. Back in the 90s? or 2000s? Porn was a big production with famous stars and was an unattainable fantasy (just entertainment, almost like Hollywood). Guys lust over Scarlett Johanson but she's not attainable. Porn stars were reaching those heights.

But now that's dying as porn goes from DVDs to free on the internet. High production to low production. It becomes more nameless girls on webcams or nameless girls having sex with one guy shot by one camera. And the girls are subservient, doing anything on demand. The volume of content is immense. So these guys think, why does that guy get the hot girls. Why aren't they with a nice guy like me. Or all girls should do whatever I say.

Watch the documentary "Hot Girls Wanted" on Netflix, it's produced by Rashida Jones (from the office and Parks and Rec) and does a good job of examining this exact thing. Guys like girls they think are attainable so the "amateur" porn scene (i.e. low production) is what people are looking for.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

Watch the documentary "Hot Girls Wanted" on Netflix, it's produced by Rashida Jones (from the office and Parks and Rec) and does a good job of examining this exact thing. Guys like girls they think are attainable so the "amateur" porn scene (i.e. low production) is what people are looking for.

I actually have this on my to watch list. I'm assuming its a worth while watch, also there's a sequel up now.

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

I feel like you are confusing Otaku culture (and moreso western Otaku culture) with "anime" culture.

Anime is an art style. I don't think it's fair, and I don't think anyone would say something from Studio Ghibli for example (or many other respected series) is portraying women in any more of a negative light than anything from western culture.

#NotAllAnime

Snark aside, you do make a good point. Incels are into a specific wish fulfillment sub-genre of anime where the "waifu" characters are portrayed as not having any desires of their own and are completely subservient to their boyfriends. Obviously the female characters from Ghibli films like Princess Mononoke or Spirited Away don't apply.

[pria(kin)16]

As someone that lives and works downtown Toronto, this has been a surreal 24 hours. I squeezed my girls a little tighter last night and woke up today with a very different perspective. I know this incident will be heavily analyzed and politicized, but I hope we can find more in what unites us rather than what divides us.

There will be plenty of hashtags and profile picture updates, my wish is that people (if they can) provide financial and tangible support to the victims and their families. The response to Humboldt was amazing and spoke volumes to the compassion we have as Canadians, unfortunately it's time to show the world again how much we care.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by pria(kin)16

As someone that lives and works downtown Toronto, this has been a surreal 24 hours. I squeezed my girls a little tighter last night and woke up today with a very different perspective. I know this incident will be heavily analyzed and politicized, but I hope we can find more in what unites us rather than what divides us.

There will be plenty of hashtags and profile picture updates, my wish is that people (if they can) provide financial and tangible support to the victims and their families. The response to Humboldt was amazing and spoke volumes to the compassion we have as Canadians, unfortunately it's time to show the world again how much we care.

this one has started, are there others?

https://www.gofundme.com/TorontoVanAttack

[snootchiebootchies]

Originally Posted by transplant99

I assume we read the same forum (was linked to one of the stories yesterday) and i couldn't even muster empathy for them.

Self wallowing is something I cannot relate to when the universal reaction to it was to lash out at others for doing so. They are temper tantrum level children when the women of their desire aren't interested. Instead of some real self reflection, they are lazy about why they are the way they are.

Grow up and be an adult, realize rejection happens to everyone in many forms in life. Change what you can (which is lots of things) and accept what you cant.

The Elliot Rodger "manifesto" is self-wallowing from beginning to end, so self-wallowing seems to be a primary part of this sub-culture. There is also lots of self-wallowing in the online blogs of George Sodini, who is considered the original "incel". George Sodini walked into a women's class at a LA Fitness in 2009 and began shooting, killing three women and injuring nine.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

#NotAllAnime

Snark aside, you do make a good point. Incels are into a specific wish fulfillment sub-genre of anime where the "waifu" characters are portrayed as not having any desires of their own and are completely subservient to their boyfriends. Obviously the female characters from Ghibli films like Princess Mononoke or Spirited Away don't apply.

Even then, I don't think it's fair to say fan service anime is corrupting the minds of people either. It's like saying video games cause violence.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Even then, I don't think it's fair to say fan service anime is corrupting the minds of people either. It's like saying video games cause violence.

Its not all or nothing though. Only the Sith (and Incels apparently) deal in absolutes.

Video Games may not cause violence, but do they perpetuate it? Sometimes?

Anime may not create Incels, but can they potentially be making a problem worse? Maybe.

Either way, the fault doesnt lie there, it lies in the actions of individuals.

Eliminating Video Games or Anime doesnt solve the underlying problem.

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Even then, I don't think it's fair to say fan service anime is corrupting the minds of people either. It's like saying video games cause violence.

"Corrupting the minds" might be overstating it, but I do think the particular type of anime many incels enjoy most definitely contributes to their already unhealthy attitude towards women. They fantasize about having a girlfriend like their anime waifu and are frustrated that real-life, non-animated women have independent thoughts, opinions, dreams, and desires of their own that aren't centered around serving and being completely subservient to their boyfriend.

[Ashasx]

No, video games do not perpetuate violence.

No, anime does not worsen the "incels" problem.

You are trying to connect dots of things you don't understand. Just like people playing video games understand that Call of Duty isn't real, people know that skimpy cartoon waifus don't reflect real women.

[PsYcNeT]

While I'm not going to post links from my work PC, I'd like to chime in that there is a sub-set of incels that promote "2D" women over "3D" women, non-ironically.

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

people know that skimpy cartoon waifus don't reflect real women.

Yes, most definitely people who are socially well-adjusted and have respect for women know that. Incels, on the other hand, are not socially well-adjusted and already have an unhealthy attitude towards women. From what I've been able to glean from the incel subculture, they really do believe that women just like the fictional subservient waifus from their favourite wish fulfillment animes actually exist "in the wild" but the only women they can ever meet are "Stacys".

[Ashasx]

So is this fan service anime the cause of their disillusion or something they escape to in order to avoid reality and find enjoyment?

[longsuffering]

Originally Posted by White Out 403

I bet I can guess the motivation and even this man's religion.

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

That's gotta sting for all the bigots who said they "can guess the motivation and even this man's religion".

Every notice how the bigots never come back to admit they were wrong and to take ownership of their posts?

Cowards.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

[Jeff Lebowski]

Originally Posted by longsuffering

Every notice how the bigots never come back to admit they were wrong and to take ownership of their posts?

Cowards.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

They’re scumbags.

[Looch City]

Originally Posted by longsuffering

Every notice how the bigots never come back to admit they were wrong and to take ownership of their posts?

Cowards.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

Sometimes, you just can't fix stupid.

[photon]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

So is this fan service anime the cause of their disillusion or something they escape to in order to avoid reality and find enjoyment?

I doubt there's a causal relationship. I enjoy anime, but I don't enjoy the kind described in the thread, it doesn't do anything for me, I don't enjoy it, so I don't watch it.

But someone who is drawn to it watches it because it feeds something already there IMO. I think it can definitely exacerbate and enable though, the more time one spends immersed in their view of how things are the less they'll want to change.

Kind of like porn that's violent or demeaning, people who hold those views will find it engaging and rewarding to watch, while those that don't won't get anything out of it.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by photon

But someone who is drawn to it watches it because it feeds something already there IMO. I think it can definitely exacerbate and enable though, the more time one spends immersed in their view of how things are the less they'll want to change.

How can you state this though? If it is not a solution to the problem, does that mean it is part of the problem?

I feel like people are confusing neets/hikikomori (aka social recluses) with incels. And as far as I know, Japan doesn't have an incel problem.

[DownInFlames]

Originally Posted by longsuffering

Every notice how the bigots never come back to admit they were wrong and to take ownership of their posts?

Cowards.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

I’m not going to attack them for posting those things, but hopefully they learn from this why stereotyping is wrong.

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

How can you state this though? If it is not a solution to the problem, does that mean it is part of the problem?

I feel like people are confusing neets/hikikomori (aka social recluses) with incels. And as far as I know, Japan doesn't have an incel problem.

Why are you being so defensive about this? You're coming across like a Vancouverite who, in the wake of the 2011 Stanley Cup riot, was insistent that it was all caused by a bunch of out-of-town anarchists and not "true Canuck fans".

Look, if you enjoy anime, and even if you enjoy this particular type of anime, that's fine. I'm not passing judgement on you as an individual. All I'm saying is that incels, who already have a really unhealthy view of women, find their existing negative attitudes reinforced in the communities they join (like the now-banned /r/incels) and the media they consume (like waifu anime).