2017/2018 Trade Speculation and Rumors

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Dan403

Everyone has been drooling for ROR for years now.

I remember the last player that CP drooled over for years and years. Jokinen.

Be careful what you wish for.

6 50+ point seasons since 2011-12 from a centre 2 years younger than Backlund.

Maybe if the Flames had grabbed Jokinen before the Zednik injury, things would have been different.

[H2SO4(aq)]

Originally Posted by Dan403

Everyone has been drooling for ROR for years now.

I remember the last player that CP drooled over for years and years. Jokinen.

Be careful what you wish for.

I know you’re making a different point, but I really don’t think jokinen and ROR are similar players.

[Roof-Daddy]

It's players like Bennett, Jankowski, Foo, Mangiapane and Dube that make snagging Ryan O'Reilly make even more sense.

We saw what a guy like Ferland could do with a high end "pairing" of forwards. Getting ROR gives the Flames three centers capable of driving the bus on their own line, and three high end "pairings" to slot a young winger with.

Gaudreau / Monahan
Tkachuk / O'Reilly
Frolik / Backlund

Slot the best and most ready between Ferland, Bennett, Jankowsi, Foo, Mangiapane and Dube in with those pairings and you've got yourself a very good and balanced top 9 forward group year after year.

Build your 4th line out of what's left over plus potentially Shore and Lazar.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

It's players like Bennett, Jankowski, Foo, Mangiapane and Dube that make snagging Ryan O'Reilly make even more sense.

We saw what a guy like Ferland could do with a high end "pairing" of forwards. Getting ROR gives the Flames three centers capable of driving the bus on their own line, and three high end "pairings" to slot a young winger with.

Gaudreau / Monahan
Tkachuk / O'Reilly
Frolik / Backlund

Slot the best and most ready between Ferland, Bennett, Jankowsi, Foo, Mangiapane and Dube in with those pairings and you've got yourself a very good and balanced top 9 forward group year after year.

Yeah - it just means you don't get a true RW for the top line at Even Strength but do get the RH shot you need at center and on the power play.

Gaudreau - Monahan - Ferland
Tkachuk - O'Reilly - Bennett
Dube - Backlund - Frolik
Mangiapane - Jankowski - Shore

That's a pretty solid forward group. And with their chemistry in the AHL maybe Mangiapane + Jankowski become your 4th "pairing".

[Royle9]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Yeah - it just means you don't get a true RW for the top line at Even Strength but do get the RH shot you need at center and on the power play.

Gaudreau - Monahan - Ferland
Tkachuk - O'Reilly - Bennett
Dube - Backlund - Frolik
Mangiapane - Jankowski - Shore

That's a pretty solid forward group.

Nothing stopping us from bringing on another top 6 forward to play on the right side like say Hoffman or something for example. The downside is of course you'd likely be losing multiple from the following group to bring on both:

Brodie, Hamilton, Bennett, Jankowski, Fox, 2019 pick,

[nik-]

I'll be very disappointed if Ferland is our top line RW next season.

[keenan87]

Originally Posted by Royle9

Nothing stopping us from bringing on another top 6 forward to play on the right side like say Hoffman or something for example. The downside is of course you'd likely be losing multiple from the following group to bring on both:

Brodie, Hamilton, Bennett, Jankowski, Fox, 2019 pick,

I think Frolik+Jankowski+Fox could land ROR if he really wants to move.

Stone+Bennett for Simmonds

Sign Neal or JVR or Kane

Gaudreau-Monahan-Simmonds
Tkachuk-ROR-UFA
Ferland-Backlund-Foo
Mangiapane-Shore-Hathaway
Klimchuk

Giordano-Hamilton
Andersson-Brodie
Hamonic-Kulak
Wotherspoon

[Royle9]

Originally Posted by keenan87

I think Frolik+Jankowski+Fox could land ROR if he really wants to move.

Stone+Bennett for Simmonds

Sign Neal or JVR or Kane

I mean.. you'd have to say our offense just got extremely better, almost dream worthy.
I'm not sure Frolik Janko and Fox gets you ROR tbh but if it does:

I dont think we have the cap to fit in Simmonds, ROR and one of Neal, JVR or Kane while keeping both Brodie and Hamilton on the books do we?

Simmonds = 3.9
ROR = 7.5
Neal/JVR/Kane = 6.5 minimum more likely 7
18.4M total

Bennett = 1.95
Stone = 3.5
Frolik = 4.3
7.8M total

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by nik-

I'll be very disappointed if Ferland is our top line RW next season.

Again, I ask why?

I mean sure, I'll happily take an upgrade. But this teams weakness last year wasn't it's top line.

It's weakness was mainly the bottom six forwards, and injuries to Frolik early on and Tkachuk at the end of the season made the 2nd line less effective as well.

[868904]

Originally Posted by Royle9

Cheaper... sure but you cannot compare the 2 at all really.
ROR - 27 vs DR -31
6 sesaons in the NHL @ age 27 vs 2 seasons in the NHL @ 31
50-60 pts vs 30-40 pts

We need the points that ROR can put up coupled with the chance he can take his 50-60 and turn it to 60-70 playing with a bigger role.
Picking up Ryan to me actually seems like a waste of a roster spot at this point, bottom 6 forward that would primarily only come to be used for faceoffs.

ROR #1 @ 60%
DR #8 @ 56% - not to discount him at all as that's quite high however Carolina in general has 3 guys in the top 12 which further proves to me that Peters clearly values FO%

Of course you don't compare the two. Ryan is a plan B or C or D and you only sign him for $1 to 1.5 million on a one year deal type of thing to be your 4th line centre and faceoff specialist, which he is probably better at then Shore at this point. You then hope that Jankowski takes that next step as a third line centre putting up 20/20.

The cost difference between ROR and Derek Ryan could be massive. Not only in terms of cap hit and term, but also in terms of assets given up.

ROR would be the 2nd line centre and play in all situations, 20 minute guy.

Derek Ryan would be the 4th line centre and play in select situations, 10 minute guy.

They are apples and oranges and play entirely different roles.

[theslymonkey]

I keep seeing people leave Lazar off of their lineups. I think a he shows up to take a real shot at 3RW. He's got too much drive to just fade away. I think he will be at least 4RW next year.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by theslymonkey

I keep seeing people leave Lazar off of their lineups. I think a he shows up to take a real shot at 3RW. He's got too much drive to just fade away. I think he will be at least 4RW next year.

I see him as no more than a depth piece right now.

I certainly wouldn't go into next season penciling him in anywhere higher than a 13th forward at this point. If we wants to be a 3RW or 4RW or 4C he is going to have to come to camp and take it.

I like Curtis Lazar, and I hope he does force his way in there, but going into next season expecting a forward with 15 career goals in 245 career games to be anything more than 13th forward is just asking for the same lack of depth scoring that plagued this team last season.

I will say the same about Shore. 15 career goals in 236 NHL games.

This is why I hope to see a guy like Derek Ryan added. He had 15 goals just last season, and can win face offs. Of course he did that with more ice time than a 4th liner gets, but he's a guy that has proven capable of stepping up when needed which is valuable depth wise.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Again, I ask why?

I mean sure, I'll happily take an upgrade. But this teams weakness last year wasn't it's top line.

It's weakness was mainly the bottom six forwards, and injuries to Frolik early on and Tkachuk at the end of the season made the 2nd line less effective as well.

Because he's not a top line RW imo.

[The Boy Wonder]

ROR would be awesome and truly moves backlund down to third line. That would give us amazing depth...

I'd love to get a deal for him around stone, ferland and fox. but I doubt thats somthing Buf would do.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by nik-

Because he's not a top line RW imo.

You're right he's not but it didn't hold the the line or team back.

Like I said, I will happily take an upgrade, but there are other issues that are more important to fix IMO.

If they fix those issues and Ferland is still the top line RW, I can live with it.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by The Boy Wonder

ROR would be awesome and truly moves backlund down to third line. That would give us amazing depth...

I'd love to get a deal for him around stone, ferland and fox. but I doubt thats somthing Buf would do.

Sub Ferland and Stone for Brodie and we have the workings of something IMO

[The Boy Wonder]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Again, I ask why?

I mean sure, I'll happily take an upgrade. But this teams weakness last year wasn't it's top line.

It's weakness was mainly the bottom six forwards, and injuries to Frolik early on and Tkachuk at the end of the season made the 2nd line less effective as well.

Ferkland is a great guy to have on your team because he is the true definition of someone who can play up and down the roster.

He has shown us in the past three years that he can score, he can muck it up and he's fast and he can play whatever role is needed (although I wish he would've played tougher this season)

The thing is that you kind of lose that versatility by needing him to be your RW1.

If there is someone else who can be your RW1 then you are able to have Ferland be the lineup floater who replaces brouwer in that role (since basically thats how GG used brouwer 5on5)

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by keenan87

I think Frolik+Jankowski+Fox could land ROR if he really wants to move.

Stone+Bennett for Simmonds

Love Simmonds but don't make this trade.

30 year old power forwards that have average production at Even Strength, and rely mostly on PP production is how you sign Troy Brouwer.

Brouwer 15/16:

Age:30
Total: G: 18 P:39
ES: G: 11 P: 29

Simmonds 17/18:

Age: 29
Total: G: 22 P:46
ES: G: 12 P: 28

Don't make the same mistake twice which would be even worse because instead of just a UFA signing you also trade a high potential 21 year old for him.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by nik-

Because he's not a top line RW imo.

Such an overly simplistic way of looking at it. Top teams now put 1st line players on 3 different lines and then put complimentary players on all those lines as well. See Crosby, Malkin and Kessel in PIT. Does Crosby always play with guys who would be 1st liners on every team in the league? No.

If CGY was to acquire a legitimate 1st line RW I’d want him on the second line with some combination of Tkachuk, Bennett and Jankowski to give us a real secondary threat line. Gaudreau and Monahan are elite offensive players and don’t need a 3rd elite player to succeed. What they need is a guy who compliments their weaknesses. Both of them struggle along the boards and are not the most physical guys so they need a powerforward in an ideal world who has some skill and hockey sense. And that is why Ferland worked great there last season. Ferland doesn’t need to be a 1st line forward for that line to be successful, he needs to be skilled enough to play with those guys while bringing qualities that compliment Gaudreau and Monahan’s weakness. And he did that well. He’s skilled enough to finish and pass and can win board battles and drive the net which is the role those guys need.

Our problem last year was not the 1st line. Our problem last year was having 1 scoring line, one elite checking line and then GG’s leftover lines of offensively struggling players. If Peters can construct a lineup with two equally dangerous scoring lines plus an elite checking line then we have contending depth. Doesn’t matter then who is considered the 1st line, doesnt matter if the 1st line RW is less skilled than the 2nd line RW. You are trying to make several effective units. Gaudreau-Monahan-Ferland was an effective unit. It was the fact we didn’t have another effective scoring line that cost us. Bennett-Jankowski-Hathaway was not a good scoring line nor was it an elite checking line. Something like Tkachuk-Jankowski-Hoffman could be another great scoring line as an example. Then you could have Bennett-Backlund-Frolik as your 3rd line elite checking line with offense and there’s real depth.

IMO this fixation on Ferland being a problem as the top RWer shows a lack of understanding about how modern teams are constructing their lineup with three strong lines and show a lack of understanding about how you can build one line around two elite offensive players and then a complimentary player that brings things those players lack.

[TheScorpion]

One of Bill Peters' favourite players in Carolina was Derek Ryan, almost to a slightly excessive degree. I could see the Flames bringing him in to be a bottom-six utility player who can play centre or right wing.