Van hits multiple pedestrians in Toronto

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

I think they start out as hello m'lady's that think their doormat chivalry should be the path to a relationship. The misogyny angle comes after constant rejection when they assume women are all stupid and fall for jerks or guys with money.

So this is basically the same as PUAs except without the skillset?

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

So this is basically the same as PUAs except without the skillset?

Their lack of skillset appears to be their primary grievance with the world. They seem to almost universally identify as either too ugly or too short to ever succeed it today's sexual marketplace. Some also recognize their own complete lack of charm etc.

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Great write-up MarchHare.

Sexualizing and objectifying everything is the problem. What woman is going to go for that? I can imagine how uncomfortable being on a date with this guy would be. He wants sex immediately and you can see it in his eyes.

The Urban Dictionary has a pretty succinct write-up as well on what an “incel” is.

I knew people like that in high school and early university. You can kind of relate, but at the same time you’re not wallowing in it at that level of despair or whatever. It’s bizarre what people’s minds will fixate on rather than just getting on with life.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by Wormius

The Urban Dictionary has a pretty succinct write-up as well on what an “incel” is.

I knew people like that in high school and early university. You can kind of relate, but at the same time you’re not wallowing in it at that level of despair or whatever. It’s bizarre what people’s minds will fixate on rather than just getting on with life.

Yes, I was struck by a strange mix of empathy, pity, and disgust when reading through one of their forums.

[Ozy_Flame]

This actually worries me a bit more. Having internet discussion groups - or even "meme" culture - mutating into wanton acts of violence seems far more random and harder to stop than tracing individuals who become radicalized or plan religious or political-based terrorist acts.

I fear we may see more "meme" violence as people see it as outlets that, or some sort of attention-grabbing thing. One only has to look at the amount of attention-starved ass clowns doing dumb things on their YouTube channels for likes. Combine this need for attention with incredibly easy ways to commit violence, I think it's likely this happens again.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Makarov

Yes, I was struck by a strange mix of empathy, pity, and disgust when reading through one of their forums.

I assume we read the same forum (was linked to one of the stories yesterday) and i couldn't even muster empathy for them.

Self wallowing is something I cannot relate to when the universal reaction to it was to lash out at others for doing so. They are temper tantrum level children when the women of their desire aren't interested. Instead of some real self reflection, they are lazy about why they are the way they are.

Grow up and be an adult, realize rejection happens to everyone in many forms in life. Change what you can (which is lots of things) and accept what you cant.

[GordonBlue]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

A quick primer on incels, since this thread seems to be the first place many are hearing that term. I picked up most of this information by browsing their subreddit (now banned by the reddit admins -- think for a moment how bad a community it must have been considering what other terribleness they still allow on the site) one afternoon after it was linked on another site as being one of the most toxic communities on the entire internet.

As has been mentioned, incel is an abbreviation for "involuntarily celibate". These are (mostly) young heterosexual men who have been unable to enter into a a romantic relationship with a woman so far in their lives. Rather than using this as an opportunity for self-reflection and self-improvement, like a well-adjusted member of society would, they instead wallow together in their mutual self-pity and sadness. Almost every single one of them considers themselves to be a "nice guy", and they seem incredulous over the fact that women (who they refer to using the generic name "Stacy") would prefer to date a fictitious caricature of a meathead ######bag jock (whom they call "Chad") rather than a true refined gentleman of culture and taste who "treats women the way they deserve to be treated" like they would.

The entire incel culture is drenched in misogyny. They put women on pedestals and hold them to impossibly high standards, and they hate any woman who is unable to meet that unattainable threshold (i.e. all of them). Many, if not most, incels are huge anime fans, and their taste in women is influenced by the fictional characters from their favourite cartoons; that is, quiet, unassuming, completely subservient to men, and lacking any individuality or motivation other than pleasing their male love interest.

Perhaps most alarming about their subculture is that so many of them idolize Elliott Rodger and view his 2014 shooting rampage as righteous vengeance on behalf of his fellow nice guys against the Stacys and Chads of the world (in a similar way to how some people see the Columbine killings as a revenge fantasy against people who bullied them). What incels really need are supportive friends (either online or IRL) who will tell them that things are going to get better and help pull them out of their funk, but instead they reject all constructive advice because they'd rather fetishize their misery and blame their problems on anything other than themselves.

i'm assuming their high standards include the woman being good looking with a nice body.
I've known a few guys over the years who never got dates because they wouldn't date what they felt were fatties or uglies. they always wanted that hottie they thought they deserved. for those I kept in touch with, they all matured but one.

bad side of the internet, for these Incel guys. instead of getting help or growing up, they just get in these insular groups and feed into each others hate and insecurities.

I wonder if these guys watch too much porn, too. the way women are depicted, these guys probably wonder why all these hot women are not putting out for them, and get angry at the "dumb c***s"

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

Facebook confirms the post on his profile was real.

Source for this: https://www.theglobeandmail.com/cana...e-cites-incel/

A post made on Facebook just moments before Monday’s pedestrian attack in Toronto detailing an “Incel Rebellion” appears to have been made by suspect Alek Minassian’s actual account, a Facebook spokesperson told The Globe and Mail.

The post praised Elliot Rodger, a man who killed six people and then himself in California in 2014 and who described himself, too, as an “incel” – someone who is involuntarily celibate. While many fake social-media accounts are often created in the aftermath of a tragedy, Facebook said that the account and post did not appear to be fake.

“This is a terrible tragedy and our hearts go out to the people who have been affected,” Meg Sinclair of Facebook Canada said by e-mail. “There is absolutely no place on our platform for people who commit such horrendous acts. We have found and immediately deleted the suspect’s Facebook account.” The social-media website’s community standards disallow mass murderers to maintain a presence, the spokesperson said.

[...]

Quebec mosque shooter Alexandre Bissonnette also took interest in Mr. Rodger and other mass killers. Less than 24 hours before the mosque shooting in January 2017, he typed “Elliot Rodger” into Google, according to evidence produced during his sentencing hearing.

The term “Incels” emerged from a Reddit group in which tens of thousands of users, most of them young men, commiserate about their lack of sexual activity – many of them placing the blame on women. The group has received substantial criticism for its apparent misogyny, including posts that appeared to condone rape. Reddit banned the community late last year. Chads and Stacys, meanwhile, are pejorative terms often used by this group to describe sexually active men, and women who won’t date members of the group. The terms are mostly employed in fringe online channels who are often virulently anti-feminist.

[GordonBlue]

still kind of shocking. when I heard van hits people in Toronto. I think of like an out of control car going into a bus stop and maybe a couple of people getting hurt.

or like the idiot in edmonton last year.

nothing like the scope of this.

what bothers me is the scope of the death and injuries is in the ballpark of Humbolt, but you won't get near the same emotional reaction.
there will be no gofundme accounts worth millions to help these people.

strange how it works, where one tragedy causes people worldwide to sit down and cry, while in another like this the victims will soon be forgotten (and barely menitoned) as we move to the next mass killing.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by GordonBlue

i'm assuming their high standards include the woman being good looking with a nice body.
I've known a few guys over the years who never got dates because they wouldn't date what they felt were fatties or uglies. they always wanted that hottie they thought they deserved. for those I kept in touch with, they all matured but one.

bad side of the internet, for these Incel guys. instead of getting help or growing up, they just get in these insular groups and feed into each others hate and insecurities.

I wonder if these guys watch too much porn, too. the way women are depicted, these guys probably wonder why all these hot women are not putting out for them, and get angry at the "dumb c***s"

NSFW!

I'm sure if they're into the anime subculture, and the subservience portrayed there, then there into some Anime Porn which is mindbendingly sick and combines pedophilia with rape and bestiality, because the girls are portrayed as submissive to all of it.

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by GordonBlue

i'm assuming their high standards include the woman being good looking with a nice body.

Oh, absolutely. They only want to date women with the bodies of 10/10 bikini models even though they themselves do not have the bodies of 10/10 firemen. Part of their misogyny comes from their belief that women are (or at least should be) incapable of supporting themselves and need someone who can "provide for them", therefore the incel's self-rated superior intelligence (and assumed greater earning potential) should make them a more attractive mate compared to "Chad" in spite of their other shortcomings.

For this reason, they also hate feminists and anyone else who attempts to disrupt the old social order where women were financially dependent upon men.

[direwolf]

Originally Posted by GordonBlue

still kind of shocking. when I heard van hits people in Toronto. I think of like an out of control car going into a bus stop and maybe a couple of people getting hurt.

or like the idiot in edmonton last year.

nothing like the scope of this.

what bothers me is the scope of the death and injuries is in the ballpark of Humbolt, but you won't get near the same emotional reaction.
there will be no gofundme accounts worth millions to help these people.

strange how it works, where one tragedy causes people worldwide to sit down and cry, while in another like this the victims will soon be forgotten (and barely menitoned) as we move to the next mass killing.

I think people naturally react more strongly when kids are involved. It's just how we're wired.

[CaptainCrunch]

https://twitter.com/user/status/988815971740782593

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

NSFW!

I'm sure if they're into the anime subculture, and the subservience portrayed there, then there into some Anime Porn which is mindbendingly sick and combines pedophilia with rape and bestiality, because the girls are portrayed as submissive to all of it.

There was an article in the Calgary Sun yesterday about Stormy Daniels and how she might be the last famous porn star. Back in the 90s? or 2000s? Porn was a big production with famous stars and was an unattainable fantasy (just entertainment, almost like Hollywood). Guys lust over Scarlett Johanson but she's not attainable. Porn stars were reaching those heights.

But now that's dying as porn goes from DVDs to free on the internet. High production to low production. It becomes more nameless girls on webcams or nameless girls having sex with one guy shot by one camera. And the girls are subservient, doing anything on demand. The volume of content is immense. So these guys think, why does that guy get the hot girls. Why aren't they with a nice guy like me. Or all girls should do whatever I say.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

There was an article in the Calgary Sun yesterday about Stormy Daniels and how she might be the last famous porn star. Back in the 90s? or 2000s? Porn was a big production with famous stars and was an unattainable fantasy (just entertainment, almost like Hollywood). Guys lust over Scarlett Johanson but she's not attainable. Porn stars were reaching those heights.

But now that's dying as porn goes from DVDs to free on the internet. High production to low production. It becomes more nameless girls on webcams or nameless girls having sex with one guy shot by one camera. And the girls are subservient, doing anything on demand. The volume of content is immense. So these guys think, why does that guy get the hot girls. Why aren't they with a nice guy like me. Or all girls should do whatever I say.

It sounds like you watch a ton of porn.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

There was an article in the Calgary Sun yesterday about Stormy Daniels and how she might be the last famous porn star. Back in the 90s? or 2000s? Porn was a big production with famous stars and was an unattainable fantasy (just entertainment, almost like Hollywood). Guys lust over Scarlett Johanson but she's not attainable. Porn stars were reaching those heights.

But now that's dying as porn goes from DVDs to free on the internet. High production to low production. It becomes more nameless girls on webcams or nameless girls having sex with one guy shot by one camera. And the girls are subservient, doing anything on demand. The volume of content is immense. So these guys think, why does that guy get the hot girls. Why aren't they with a nice guy like me. Or all girls should do whatever I say.

Probably not a discussion that we want to go down the path of. However there's something to be said for high production and hot actress

[WhiteTiger]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

I'm pretty confused. I thought there were reports in this thread that the suspect was known to police prior to this incident? What was he known for? His mental health issues?

It's not unlikely. Folks are "known to police" for all sorts of reasons, not just because they are frequent violent gangbangers. Perhaps he lived in his parents basement, and they had weekly screaming matches over it. Maybe he liked to hang out at various places and make the staff uncomfortable (particularly if the staff working was a single lady). Maybe he frequently shoplifts.

There are all sorts of reasons to be known to police.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

https://twitter.com/user/status/988815971740782593

To many "chads" in the military for him to function.

[CaptainCrunch]

More like too many Stacey's that were actually like Chads.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

NSFW!

I'm sure if they're into the anime subculture, and the subservience portrayed there, then there into some Anime Porn which is mindbendingly sick and combines pedophilia with rape and bestiality, because the girls are portrayed as submissive to all of it.

I feel like you are confusing Otaku culture (and moreso western Otaku culture) with "anime" culture.

Anime is an art style. I don't think it's fair, and I don't think anyone would say something from Studio Ghibli for example (or many other respected series) is portraying women in any more of a negative light than anything from western culture.