2017/2018 Trade Speculation and Rumors

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by VilleN

^ Yeah, I tend to agree... Playing with Crosby and/or Malkin makes it pretty difficult to assess the actual value of a player.

James Neal says hi

...but I see your point

[Bunk]

O'Reilly will be playing for Peters at the World Championship. Wonder if that might help solidify a trade if things go well.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

This is a great question. Especially with Janko and Bennett once again vying for the 3rd line center role. Is Tre comfortable gambling the season on one of these two anchoring an effective 3rd line? Or does he look to trade for a top 6 center like O'Reilly, or sign one via UFA, like Tavares, Stastny...or more realistically a guy like Bozak?

Personally, if our center depth going into next season is:

Monahan
Backlund
Jankowski
Bennett

I will not not be filled to the brim with confidence, that's for sure.

I don't think that's really bad (though I think you still have Jankowski and Bennett together or at least you won't have Bennett on the fourth line - you have Nick Shore for that).

It's comparable at least to:

Johansen
Turris
Bonino
Fisher

[transplant99]

Yeah the Bennett at C experiment has to end at some point, so if he isn't traded over the summer, he can be penciled in on the wing...somewhere.

I think BT will have to go to UFA and grab a veteran and cheapish C who can PK and is good on the dot.

Riley Nash and Jay Beagle are a couple guys that fit that bill. There are others I am sure but havent looked at it that hard.

[Toonage]

Originally Posted by transplant99

I think BT will have to go to UFA and grab a veteran and cheapish C who can PK and is good on the dot.

They have that in Nick Shore. 4LC if thats the way they want go.

[VilleN]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

James Neal says hi

...but I see your point

To be fair he was already trending up in Dallas... but I'm sure there are exceptions. In any case, you've got to be cautious about a winger who has only put up numbers next to an elite center, especially when that center is Crosby.

[The Boy Wonder]

More and more I think about it I really think this is the offseason to move Fox and stone for an RW.

I think fox is the chip you trade there because I just don't see him signing with the flames, and if it goes to next offseason the return you can get is way smaller than right now.

I would love to see Fox sign here but I just think there is a bit of a logjam at D on this team the next couple years and fox is still going to be behind Valimaki, andersson, kulak and Kylington

The addition of stone means that you can likely secure either a third line RW or you maybe include Brodie instead of Stone if it moves you into the top tier group of RWs

the Stone and Fox deal should get you into the conversation about a Hayes or Galchenyuk

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

This is a great question. Especially with Janko and Bennett once again vying for the 3rd line center role. Is Tre comfortable gambling the season on one of these two anchoring an effective 3rd line? Or does he look to trade for a top 6 center like O'Reilly, or sign one via UFA, like Tavares, Stastny...or more realistically a guy like Bozak?

Personally, if our center depth going into next season is:

Monahan
Backlund
Jankowski
Bennett

I will not not be filled to the brim with confidence, that's for sure.

The more I look at it the more I think we see Derek Ryan here.

RH center who is pretty good in the faceoff dot (56.5%), was 7th in ice time among forwards in Carolina, and the coach would be very familiar with how he plays.

Probably a guy that could also play RW on the 3rd line if they needed, so fills that RH faceoff guy they wanted, and could probably play wing if you wanted to give Bennett another chance at center.

Made $1.425 last year on a 1 year deal. Likely doesn't command much more than $2.5-3M on a 2-3 year contract.

[Royle9]

Peters went out of his way multiple times to advocate that it all starts with a faceoff win.

"first 50/50 puck battle" - Important to win.

Keeping that in mind, I can certainly see Calgary making a bid for ROR if he becomes available this summer for sure as he's a leader in FO% every year and can put up 50-60 points reliably at the same time. Would solidify our top 3 center's with ROR slotting in #2 spot and Backlund dropping down to #3 as the shutdown line alongside Frolik.

Tkachuk - ROR - Bennett for example could be a pretty deadly 2nd line on paper but I'd be okay with that to start the season personally.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Yeah the Bennett at C experiment has to end at some point, so if he isn't traded over the summer, he can be penciled in on the wing...somewhere.

I think BT will have to go to UFA and grab a veteran and cheapish C who can PK and is good on the dot.

Riley Nash and Jay Beagle are a couple guys that fit that bill. There are others I am sure but havent looked at it that hard.

Not cheapish at all but ROR sure checks those boxes otherwise.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

The more I look at it the more I think we see Derek Ryan here.

RH center who is pretty good in the faceoff dot (56.5%), was 7th in ice time among forwards in Carolina, and the coach would be very familiar with how he plays.

Probably a guy that could also play on the RH side if they needed, so fills that RH faceoff guy they wanted, and could probably play wing if you wanted to give Bennett another chance at center.

Yeap. I brought him up in another thread a couple of times. I definitely can see him brought in for depth.

Originally Posted by Royle9

Peters went out of his way multiple times to advocate that it all starts with a faceoff win.

"first 50/50 puck battle" - Important to win.

Keeping that in mind, I can certainly see Calgary making a bid for ROR if he becomes available this summer for sure as he's a leader in FO% every year and can put up 50-60 points reliably at the same time. Would solidify our top 3 center's with ROR slotting in #2 spot and Backlund dropping down to #3 as the shutdown line alongside Frolik.

Tkachuk - ROR - Bennett for example could be a pretty deadly 2nd line on paper but I'd be okay with that to start the season personally.

Yes x 1000


I also wonder if Bozak could end up a Flame if other options fail, and he can be had on a short term deal....like 2 years. Right shot, good at face off, good skater still. Can probably play wing if one of the young centers establishes himself.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Bunk

O'Reilly will be playing for Peters at the World Championship. Wonder if that might help solidify a trade if things go well.

Peters probably has a wish list of players across the league that he would like to have on his team. Coaching in a tournament like this provides an opportunity for a coach to get a closer look at the players and their practice habits so yeah if ROR ticks all his boxes I'm sure he and Treliving will discuss the possibilities.

[Roof-Daddy]

Would be nice if Treliving could get ROR without dealing away Brodie, and keep the D in tact mostly, although I won't mind seeing Stone dealt for picks to make room for Andersson.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Do you think he's enough of an upgrade? I guess that's my point. At best it seems like he's a better more reliable version of Ferland.

An actual NHL warm body would be enough of an upgrade.

The Flames are desperate for about 40 more goals from their forwards on top of the remarkable season the top line had.

The halfway mark last year was 243 goals. Calgary scored 216. The last time the flames scored more than 243 goals was 2008/2009. The Flames had 2x35+ goal scorers/80+ points and 5x20+ scorers that season. This season they had 1 guy score 31 and only 4 guys score 20. At the halfway point in the season the Flames were 21st in Goals for, so it wasn't just losing players to injury at season's end and it wasn't just coaching.

If the Flames want to be serious contenders, or even serious about holding a playoff spot they're going to have to score in the 240-250 goal range and keep their goals against about where they are now or better.

At this point the team building is honestly pretty simple for Calgary. There's no way to coach yourself to another 40 goals, you can really only coach yourself to less goals against. If they want to score they'll have to add it by free agency, trade or miracle season from Dube/Bennett/Janko. A 60 goal season from Monahan might do it but I wouldn't bet the farm on that happening.

So, to answer your question, yes, Hayes is enough of an upgrade to make a dent in that goal deficit, he probably cuts into it by half meaning the roster needs another middle six scoring winger to get the rest of the way there. You can probably find that guy in free agency, but you'll probably want two of those guys to make sure you make the dance and one of them doesn't pull a brouwer/versteeg/jagr.

Tre has already gone all in with the draft picks in the last 2 or 3 years. The Flames went all in this year and decided to 'check' at the deadline. Bite the bullet, give Peters something to work with, something to have immediate success with and let the GM that succeeds you deal with the fallout of dealing all your picks away for 3 or 4 years and the albatross cap hits it will take to bring in enough scoring.

10th Place in GF:

• 2018: Colorado, 255
• 2017: Islanders, 239
• 2016: Calgary, 229
• 2015: Detroit, 231
• 2014: Dallas, 231

Even in the lower scoring years before the recent stick infraction crackdown, the Flames are basically another Jankowski away from where they need to be.

The difference was a Jake DeBrusk or a McAvoy or Heinan. Maybe Phillips turns out to be Calgary's Yanni Gourde, but they'd still need another 15 goal winger to be comfortably in the mix.

If the Flames want to do anything in their window now, they're going to have to move more picks and assets to bring in NHL calibre players onto the roster immediately. Overpay if need be, but get some scoring onto the roster before Gaudreau is 27 years old and has only a year left on his deal.

Give players a reason to want to come and or stay in Calgary other than an invitation to play stifling defensive hockey for 78 games before you know if you're going to make the playoffs or not.

Give the Fans something to actually cheer for. At this point, who cares what it costs in terms of assets, it's better than not having draft picks and also not having playoffs.

[SuperMatt18]

Based on NHL Equivalency Managiapane should be about a ~40 point NHL forward and deserves some top 6 ice time with guys not named Stajan or Brouwer.

Really the lines should probably be something like this.

Gaudreau - Monahan - RW Upgrade
Tkachuk - Jankowski - Bennett
Mangiapane - Backlund - Frolik
Ferland - Shore - Foo/Brouwer

I feel like that Forward group could potentially get you the 250 goals or so this team is looking for, especially with an improved PP.

Maybe Ferland is even moved in a package for that top line RW upgrade and then somebody like Klimchuk fills that 4th line LW spot.

[868904]

I can definitely see ROR being a target, but it will cost one of Hamilton or Brodie.

I cheaper alternative is Derek Ryan, Peters mentioned him yesterday as a strong face off guy. Would be a cheap option as a UFA. A bit small though.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Toonage

They have that in Nick Shore. 4LC if thats the way they want go.

Too unproven at this point...for lack of a better term until he shows way more than he has, he is a "dime a dozen" guy. Maybe he can become someone like that, but right now the Flames do not have the time or desire to find out and depend on a "maybe".

I agree ROR ticks off all the boxes of what it is BT will be looking for, but he will not be cheap to acquire. Regardless if he does want out of Buffalo, there will be a dozen or more teams after him. Im not sure the Flames have the assets to get there without dealing away draft picks they dont have at the moment or someone like Valimaki, who the club really cant part with at this point.

The other guys i mention are available for nothing more than money.

[The Boy Wonder]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

An actual NHL warm body would be enough of an upgrade.

The Flames are desperate for about 40 more goals from their forwards on top of the remarkable season the top line had.

The halfway mark last year was 243 goals. Calgary scored 216. The last time the flames scored more than 243 goals was 2008/2009. The Flames had 2x35+ goal scorers/80+ points and 5x20+ scorers that season. This season they had 1 guy score 31 and only 4 guys score 20. At the halfway point in the season the Flames were 21st in Goals for, so it wasn't just losing players to injury at season's end and it wasn't just coaching.

If the Flames want to be serious contenders, or even serious about holding a playoff spot they're going to have to score in the 240-250 goal range and keep their goals against about where they are now or better.

At this point the team building is honestly pretty simple for Calgary. There's no way to coach yourself to another 40 goals, you can really only coach yourself to less goals against. If they want to score they'll have to add it by free agency, trade or miracle season from Dube/Bennett/Janko. A 60 goal season from Monahan might do it but I wouldn't bet the farm on that happening.

So, to answer your question, yes, Hayes is enough of an upgrade to make a dent in that goal deficit, he probably cuts into it by half meaning the roster needs another middle six scoring winger to get the rest of the way there. You can probably find that guy in free agency, but you'll probably want two of those guys to make sure you make the dance and one of them doesn't pull a brouwer/versteeg/jagr.

Tre has already gone all in with the draft picks in the last 2 or 3 years. The Flames went all in this year and decided to 'check' at the deadline. Bite the bullet, give Peters something to work with, something to have immediate success with and let the GM that succeeds you deal with the fallout of dealing all your picks away for 3 or 4 years and the albatross cap hits it will take to bring in enough scoring.

10th Place in GF:

• 2018: Colorado, 255
• 2017: Islanders, 239
• 2016: Calgary, 229
• 2015: Detroit, 231
• 2014: Dallas, 231

Even in the lower scoring years before the recent stick infraction crackdown, the Flames are basically another Jankowski away from where they need to be.

The difference was a Jake DeBrusk or a McAvoy or Heinan. Maybe Phillips turns out to be Calgary's Yanni Gourde, but they'd still need another 15 goal winger to be comfortably in the mix.

If the Flames want to do anything in their window now, they're going to have to move more picks and assets to bring in NHL calibre players onto the roster immediately. Overpay if need be, but get some scoring onto the roster before Gaudreau is 27 years old and has only a year left on his deal.

Give players a reason to want to come and or stay in Calgary other than an invitation to play stifling defensive hockey for 78 games before you know if you're going to make the playoffs or not.

Give the Fans something to actually cheer for. At this point, who cares what it costs in terms of assets, it's better than not having draft picks and also not having playoffs.

I agree with almost all of this and think the flames definitely need to add a top 6 winger at minimum. However, I think there are a few ways in-house to get some of those goals and I think there are 3 general ways that a new coach should tangibly have as much of an impact as a 15 goal forward.

1. The system used last year was optimal for the skilled players, Johnny and Mony could still get their goals despite facing more oppostion defenders due to the slowest breakout ever. Having Peters and potentially having more rush opportunities should aid our bottom 9 forwards in scoring goals and getting better quality shots. (Not going to estimate how many more goals this will lead to as this is the most contentious point of my three)

2. Shooting %. this is slightly tied to point 1 but I feel that the teams shooting percentage essentially has to improve after last season as a whole. Most players were way down and should theoretically trend towards their career averages. Without looking at the actual stats I'd imagine this would be good enough for 5-10 additional goals for the season

3. Power Play: if Peters can come in and muster even a semi decent PP I think even a conservative estimate is we score 7 more PP goals over the course of the season

This is of course only potential and if Peters is all talk no action we could see this not really impacting anything.

I think just by having a system with more rush opportunities and an actual PP we likely get the 17 - 22 goals we would want from a middle 6 forward.

[Dan403]

Everyone has been drooling for ROR for years now.

I remember the last player that CP drooled over for years and years. Jokinen.

Be careful what you wish for.

[Royle9]

Originally Posted by 868904

I can definitely see ROR being a target, but it will cost one of Hamilton or Brodie.

I cheaper alternative is Derek Ryan, Peters mentioned him yesterday as a strong face off guy. Would be a cheap option as a UFA. A bit small though.

Cheaper... sure but you cannot compare the 2 at all really.
ROR - 27 vs DR -31
6 sesaons in the NHL @ age 27 vs 2 seasons in the NHL @ 31
50-60 pts vs 30-40 pts

We need the points that ROR can put up coupled with the chance he can take his 50-60 and turn it to 60-70 playing with a bigger role.
Picking up Ryan to me actually seems like a waste of a roster spot at this point, bottom 6 forward that would primarily only come to be used for faceoffs.

ROR #1 @ 60%
DR #8 @ 56% - not to discount him at all as that's quite high however Carolina in general has 3 guys in the top 12 which further proves to me that Peters clearly values FO%