2017/2018 Trade Speculation and Rumors - Page 530 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

dissentowner · 04-22-2018, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jayswin

So you didn't tell him to leave the thread you just told him to leave?

I told him to take a hike if he can't be civil and has to be insulting. There is a difference between telling someone to leave because you simply don't agree with what they say and telling someone to take a hike because they are spewing personal attacks at posters.

Calgary4LIfe · 04-22-2018, 04:53 PM

Alex Nylander is extremely overrated by a lot of people here.

He played one season in the CHL on his draft year - and had a pretty decent (but not spectacular) season. Ok, so he had just come over from Europe and was 'adjusting' that season. Fair enough. I will also argue that his team was composed mostly of grinders at the next stage (like McLeod).

He turned pro the following season and spent time in the NHL (4 games) but mostly in the AHL. He amassed 10 goals, 18 assists.

Following season was another 3 games in the NHL, and then AHL again. This past season he hit 8 goals and 19 assists.

At the draft, I really, really liked his brother and felt that IF the Flames were looking for an offensive player, you could legitimately reach for William Nylander and select him. I thought his brother, Alex, at his respective draft year was a reach at 8. I just don't see it.

There is no way in the world I would justify a trade for Brodie straight up. Brodie gets more points in the NHL than Alex in the AHL.

To add perspective here, Baertschi had BETTER numbers than Alex in the AHL and had a TONNE more CHL success. All the Flames got in exchange for him was a 2nd round pick - and that was after letting the entire NHL know he was available. I can't see anyone giving up a 1st for Alex. To trade him straight across for a top 4 defencemen? That's pretty ridiculous. Alex is a '2nd chance' type that may flop out of the NHL. It really is a gamble to take.

Another close to home example is Shinkaruk. Better numbers in the CHL. Better numbers in his first two seasons in the AHL. Traded for a tweener in Granlund that would probably have been waived at the start of the following season.

Alex Nylander does not have the ceiling of his brother, and I argue doesn't even come close to the floor either. Would I take a flyer on him? Sure, I would. I would rather trade him for a prospect or two in the system that I have given up on and seeing if maybe a change of scenery does some good.

I wouldn't spend a 1st, let alone a top 4 D, on taking that chance.

codynw · 04-22-2018, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by H2SO4(aq)

You guys need to back off dissentowner. Brodie is going to get traded. His compete sucks and he’s expendable and could potentially bring in a max domi etc. It will make the team better.

Trading players at their lowest value does not make the team better.

H2SO4(aq) · 04-22-2018, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoJetsGo

What are you talking about?

There's a difference between saying Brodie may be traded and saying he should be given away for nothing because he's worthless.

What a strange post. I literally mentioned (had you quoted the whole thing not just what served you best) that he would return an impact player. In the example I used it was max domi.

dissentowner · 04-22-2018, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by codynw

Trading players at their lowest value does not make the team better.

OK so you are arguing that even if the play of the player is poor and is hurting the team you should keep him because his trade value isn't what it was? I have to disagree with that.

GoJetsGo · 04-22-2018, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by H2SO4(aq)

What a strange post. I literally mentioned (had you quoted the whole thing not just what served you best) that he would return an impact player. In the example I used it was max domi.

I quoted the part I was responding to, which still makes no sense. You were telling people to lay off dissentowner, who was advocating getting rid of Brodie for anything or a prospect struggling in the AHL... which is the opposite of suggesting he may land an impact player.

I didn't see anyone disagreeing with the suggestion he may be traded, or that he's struggled the last two seasons. It was the gross hyperbole and insinuations he carries little to no value that were (rightfully) being taken issue with.

TOfan · 04-22-2018, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dissentowner

OK so you are arguing that even if the play of the player is poor and is hurting the team you should keep him because his trade value isn't what it was? I have to disagree with that.

Agree with you on this one. i think it would be best for both Brodie & the team if he moved on. That said, I wouldn't make the A. Nylander move. They should package him with another player for a top 6 forward.

Roof-Daddy · 04-22-2018, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TOfan

Agree with you on this one. i think it would be best for both Brodie & the team if he moved on. That said, I wouldn't make the A. Nylander move. They should package him with another player for a top 6 forward.

Yeah, like Ryan O'Reilly!

TOfan · 04-22-2018, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roof-daddy

yeah, like ryan o'reilly! :d

100%

dissentowner · 04-22-2018, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoJetsGo

I quoted the part I was responding to, which still makes no sense. You were telling people to lay off dissentowner, who was advocating getting rid of Brodie for anything or a prospect struggling in the AHL... which is the opposite of suggesting he may land an impact player.

I didn't see anyone disagreeing with the suggestion he may be traded, or that he's struggled the last two seasons. It was the gross hyperbole and insinuations he carries little to no value that were (rightfully) being taken issue with.

Don't twist my words to suit your agenda, I never said he was worth nothing. I said at this point I don't care what he returns because the team benefits from him not being here. That is my opinion that he hurts the team with his play much more than he helps. Whatever he returns in a deal I will be ok with but I never said his value is zero. Are you finished yet with this?

dissentowner · 04-22-2018, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TOfan

Agree with you on this one. i think it would be best for both Brodie & the team if he moved on. That said, I wouldn't make the A. Nylander move. They should package him with another player for a top 6 forward.

Fair enough, I may have overestimated Nylander myself, I thought he was doing better than he has. That is on me for not doing my homework.

The Cobra · 04-22-2018, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by H2SO4(aq)

You guys need to back off dissentowner. Brodie is going to get traded. His compete sucks and he’s expendable and could potentially bring in a max domi etc. It will make the team better.

If Brodie sucks as much as many are saying ( and I am not disputing that), his trade vale will disappoint many posters here.

Trading him today is certainly trading him at his lowest value ever.

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GoJetsGo · 04-22-2018, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Don't twist my words to suit your agenda, I never said he was worth nothing. I said at this point I don't care what he returns because the team benefits from him not being here. That is my opinion that he hurts the team with his play much more than he helps. Whatever he returns in a deal I will be ok with but I never said his value is zero. Are you finished yet with this?

Those are effectively the same things, as is saying you'd trade him for a prospect struggling in the AHL.

You have a lot of nerve asking me if I'm done yet and suggesting I have an agenda with the way ranting about Brodie has been a plight for you this year.

dissentowner · 04-22-2018, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoJetsGo

Those are effectively the same things, as is saying you'd trade him for a prospect struggling in the AHL.

You have a lot of nerve asking me if I'm done yet and suggesting I have an agenda with the way ranting about Brodie has been a plight for you this year.

No, it isn't. You said I said he has no value. I never said that, I said no matter what we get back I am fine with it because I think the most beneficial part of any Brodie trade is him not bringing the team down with his poor play. Maybe I think highly of Nylander, go back to that draft year and see who I wanted us to pick before everything changed on draft day. Like Bennett I don't think we have seen the best of him yet, not even close. Yes, I have some nerve because every time you disagree with an opinion of mine you have to jump down my throat and that is fine, totally your right to do so. Just don't twist my words around.

GoJetsGo · 04-22-2018, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dissentowner

No, it isn't. You said I said he has no value. I never said that, I said no matter what we get back I am fine with it because I think the most beneficial part of any Brodie trade is him not bringing the team down with his poor play. Maybe I think highly of Nylander, go back to that draft year and see who I wanted us to pick before everything changed on draft day. Like Bennett I don't think we have seen the best of him yet, not even close. Yes, I have some nerve because every time you disagree with an opinion of mine you have to jump down my throat and that is fine, totally your right to do so. Just don't twist my words around.

All I've ever done is point out how much hyperbole and exaggerated ire you spew about Brodie, and how it spills over to you being unable to speak about things pertaining to him rationally.

When you suggest he be moved for a struggling AHL prospect, "anything" or "no matter what we get back" - because you think he's a net negative - you imply his value is low. Several times now you've suggested there's some strong majority out there that shares your extreme take and that just isn't the case.

It makes sense that you went on to say you weren't aware Nylander has been struggling, because a page back it looked like you were fine with giving Brodie away for a song.

Regardless of how you feel about him (and I think you've made that extremely clear this season ad nauseam) he holds a certain amount of value were we to move him.

Poe969 · 04-22-2018, 08:41 PM

Saying Brodie's value is at its lowest is wrong, it may be the lowest it has been but he could surprise some and get even worse. He's been trending downward and there's no guarantee he'll improve. They may not get much for him this summer but they may not be able to move him the following summer.

The Cobra · 04-22-2018, 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poe969

Saying Brodie's value is at its lowest is wrong, it may be the lowest it has been but he could surprise some and get even worse. He's been trending downward and there's no guarantee he'll improve. They may not get much for him this summer but they may not be able to move him the following summer.

When posters say it’s at its lowest, it’s pretty obvious they are taking about past and present and not the future.

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Calgary4LIfe · 04-22-2018, 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poe969

Saying Brodie's value is at its lowest is wrong, it may be the lowest it has been but he could surprise some and get even worse. He's been trending downward and there's no guarantee he'll improve. They may not get much for him this summer but they may not be able to move him the following summer.

Sure, and that is what makes this a gamble.

We have seen Brodie play amazingly well, and we have seen him regress. I think right now Brodie's confidence is kind of shot. Will the new coach come in and turn his game around? We don't know.

All I know is that I would rather take that chance and see if he can get his game back. As I pointed out earlier this season, if Brodie can regain his form back, there is no other defencemen on the team that I would rather have with the puck when the Flames are down a goal and needing some offence. His vision and playmaking is top-notch, and so was his defending. It is a gamble, but at this point I think it is a good gamble to take.

GoJetsGo · 04-22-2018, 09:14 PM

There's no doubt he's slipped the last two years, but he's still putting up 30-40 points and is a beautiful skater. Combine that with the fact he was largely played on his off side by a coach who will widely be regarded as a dud and I'm sure there would be some suiters thinking they can turn his game around.

I wouldn't be surprised to see him retained and given some time under a new coach, but if they do look at moving him I think he would garner a good return. Top four defenders that age who can skate and put up some points are always in demand.

Monahammer · 04-22-2018, 09:18 PM

I wouldn't do brodie straight up for Alex Nylander, but I think a trade could be made with buffalo and I wouldn't mind getting Nylander in the package and giving him a try in the Nhl. He had good numbers in Sweden and plays great in tournaments against similar age players.

In the trade suggested (brodie+Jankowski for RoR+nylander) Nylander is the most unimportant piece. Brodie won't get us RoR alone but we should also get some consideration for Janko' s potential.