[News] Flames hire Bill Peters as the franchise's 19th head coach

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by dieHARDflameZ

None of us are in a position to say whether he’s right or wrong. It’s just laughable the hate the guy is getting when he hasn’t even coached a single game in Calgary.

I don’t know if everybody necessarily hates the guy. I don’t.

But the whole argument
- Sutter has proven to be a good coach and winner
- AV also is known and proven
- they are both available
- Peters has thus far had one coaching stop and been unsuccessful.

Yes there are excuses. Excuses for being unsuccessful, and hope. Reasoned and rationalized, which is fine. But people really get their backs up about the data which points to the contrary.

What there is not is demonstrated success.

It is quite natural that people question this decision by Treliving.

Especially when he fired Hartley because he had taken the team as far as he could.

Hartley can credibly tell a team what it takes to win in the playoffs. Peters hasn’t been there.

It’s not hate, it’s incredulity

[dieHARDflameZ]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

I don’t know if everybody necessarily hates the guy. I don’t.

But the whole argument
- Sutter has proven to be a good coach and winner
- AV also is known and proven
- Peters has thus far had one coaching stop and been unsuccessful. Yes thee are excuses. Excuses for being unsuccessful, and hope. Not demonstrated success.

It is quite natural that people question this decision by Treliving.

You’ve been saying virtually the same **** in nearly every post I’ve read since the news was broken.

I wanted to see AV, Sutter or Trotz (in the event he was fired) in that order but guess what? Neither of those three are coming to Calgary by the sounds of things. We don’t even know if either of the first two guys would want to come here.

We may as well quit complaining and see what happens or don’t bother watching. As a Flames fan and one that wants to see them succeed, I’ll take the wait and see approach since no amount of whining by me is going to change a damn thing.

[Matt Reeeeead]

Mike commodore has had problems with what, the last three coaches he’s had? And has a lame twitter account.

I can’t think of another player that has an opinion that is worth less to me.

I’m sure there are some reasons to question this hire. But this thread has done a very poor job of uncovering them.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[minnow]

Originally Posted by cannon7

But what is the point? An opinion that is "well formed" proves what exactly? If someone forms an opinion using a methodology you believe to be poor or inferior but the opinion ultimately turns out to be correct, do you revise your methods? Or is the opinion wrong because of it's methods?

Aw, come on you guys, flip a coin or forget it.

[1qqaaz]

Originally Posted by dieHARDflameZ

You’ve been saying virtually the same **** in nearly every post I’ve read since the news was broken.

I wanted to see AV, Sutter or Trotz (in the event he was fired) in that order but guess what? Neither of those three are coming to Calgary by the sounds of things. We don’t even know if either of the first two guys would want to come here.

We may as well quit complaining and see what happens or don’t bother watching. As a Flames fan and one that wants to see them succeed, I’ll take the wait and see approach since no amount of whining by me is going to change a damn thing.

I don't know. I think DeluxeMoustach is justified to whine.

This is a big decision. It will have a huge impact on team success and player development.

And there's not much else we can do other than complain.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

I don't know. I think DeluxeMoustach is justified to whine.

This is a big decision. It will have a huge impact on team success and player development.

And there's not much else we can do other than complain.

Hey, I was just correcting this guy about the notion of hate, which sounds emotional, vs something where people have opinions which are logical and quite reasonable. Trying to help him understand the accuracy of the words he was using.

I’m losing no sleep on any of this.

[TheOnlyBilko]

Originally Posted by AustinL_NHL

Played in a division with teams like Columbus.

Oh wow you mean that Columbus team that's never won 3 games in a single playoff series, ever, in the history of their franchise? That Columbus?!?! Lol

[dieHARDflameZ]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Hey, I was just correcting this guy about the notion of hate, which sounds emotional, vs something where people have opinions which are logical and quite reasonable. Trying to help him understand the accuracy of the words he was using.

I’m losing no sleep on any of this.

Haha that’s cute. I would say there’s a number of people being over emotional in this thread.

I’m thankful we have somebody as intelligent as yourself here to educate us on the accuracy of the words we use.

[Yrebmi]

Anyone else hope that maybe Treliving is just ultimate trolling us.

Wait a long ass time to fire GG, make us actually wonder.
Fire GG.
All but confirm re-hire of GG 2.0
Hire someone else completely Monday.

[gargamel]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Excellent!

Seems like some are forgetting that GG got canned. How people are upset after that is a head scratcher. No one know if Peters is the solution but GG certainly wasn't. Any coach hire would be a gamble in some way all we can do is wait and see how this gamble pans out. I like Treliving's decisiveness in this instance. For a methodical and slow acting GM he sure canned GG quickly and picked Peters quickly. To me that says he really, really likes Peters as a coach. Lets hope his confidence is not misplaced.

He waited at least 4 months too long to can Gulutzan.

I agree with you that Brad must have a lot of confidence in Peters, but this is the same guy who has thought that Gulutzan was the right coach for the Flames for the past 2 years. The only justification for optimism right now is faith in Treliving, but a lot of us just don't have that any more, particularly with regards to coaching decisions.

[colbym72]

Darren Haynes
@DarrenWHaynes
With many fixated on Bill Peters having not made the playoffs, I decided to look up the impact historically of bad goaltending. FWIW, last time a team in the bottom-4 in SV% (e.g. Carolina in each of the last four seasons) made the postseason was 2009-10.

[N-E-B]

Jon Cooper before he coached the Tampa Bay Lightning: 0 NHL games coached

Bruce Cassidy before the Bruins: never made it out of the first round in washington and was fired a quarter of the way into his second season with a .340 win% that season

I think we’re all familiar with Paul Maurice’s record in Winnipeg before this season. He’s only made the playoffs twice since 2002.

Gerard Gallant as a head coach has made it to the playoffs one time before this season.

Mike Babcock coached the Leafs to dead last just two seasons ago.

Joel Quenneville (who everyone here wanted so badly) coached a team to a WORSE record than GG.

It’s not fair to judge Peters based on his past record. Good teams make good coaches, not the other way around. I’m not suggesting coaching doesn’t matter, but what I am suggesting is the idea that because Peters hasn’t had success in the NHL yet means he can’t have success in the future with a new team is garbage.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by colbym72

Darren Haynes
@DarrenWHaynes
With many fixated on Bill Peters having not made the playoffs, I decided to look up the impact historically of bad goaltending. FWIW, last time a team in the bottom-4 in SV% (e.g. Carolina in each of the last four seasons) made the postseason was 2009-10.

Chicken and egg.

Save percentage is largely a team stat.

I just created a thread that discusses goaltending, shot quality and expected save percentage.

I see that Darling had a .888 which is bad, and agree that last year Ward at .906 did well record wise, but that was one year of four.

Time to segment and determine how much of ‘bad goaltending’ over 4 years is goalie and how much is team.

Frankly I wonder if Peters missed this.

Proposed narrative:
Previous year results were similar with decent goaltending
His team is good this year with Ward, bad with Darling
If he played Darling less, maybe they make the playoffs
The roster is developing, and he just jumped ship on what could be a playoff team

[Calgary4LIfe]

I agree with you Moustache - I don't know why people are pointing at the SV% being so definitive. IMO, you really have to watch the Canes a tonne - and even then it can be tough to figure out WHY the goalies are sucking.

Fact:
Lack
Darling
Ward

They each had better years historically pre-Peters.

Fact:
Lack
Darling

Were never #1 goalies until they arrived. Was it the pressure? Was it the goalie coach? Was it the poor defensive coverage?

Ward: Aging and declining, and was inconsistent throughout his career.

Looking back at Calgary, was Hiller THAT bad, or was it partly because Calgary gave up too many glorious chances?

Kipper was an easy 'this is why' - Keenan! However, there were still fans that were insinuating that Kipper was done and declining.

I do not think that Darren Haynes should be that definitive - he really can't know definitively if Darling and Ward were terrible, or if it was the system that was a big contributing factor. We will see how Darling does this upcoming season under a new coach. We will see how Calgary does. I just don't see pointing the finger at goaltending and saying "THAT IS WHY" is correct (it may indeed be correct, but it is often not - heck, just look at Dubynk, or even Talbot over the last 2 seasons).

[circle]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

I agree with you Moustache - I don't know why people are pointing at the SV% being so definitive. IMO, you really have to watch the Canes a tonne - and even then it can be tough to figure out WHY the goalies are sucking.

Fact:
Lack
Darling
Ward

They each had better years historically pre-Peters.

Fact:
Lack
Darling

Were never #1 goalies until they arrived. Was it the pressure? Was it the goalie coach? Was it the poor defensive coverage?

Ward: Aging and declining, and was inconsistent throughout his career.

Looking back at Calgary, was Hiller THAT bad, or was it partly because Calgary gave up too many glorious chances?

Kipper was an easy 'this is why' - Keenan! However, there were still fans that were insinuating that Kipper was done and declining.

I do not think that Darren Haynes should be that definitive - he really can't know definitively if Darling and Ward were terrible, or if it was the system that was a big contributing factor. We will see how Darling does this upcoming season under a new coach. We will see how Calgary does. I just don't see pointing the finger at goaltending and saying "THAT IS WHY" is correct (it may indeed be correct, but it is often not - heck, just look at Dubynk, or even Talbot over the last 2 seasons).

I agree with your post that there are many, many factors to consider when examining the root causes of overall team save percentage. But IMO, yes, Hiller was that bad.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by circle

I agree with your post that there are many, many factors to consider when examining the root causes of overall team save percentage. But IMO, yes, Hiller was that bad.

Hiller was very good in 14-15, with fine team D, and very bad the next year, with horrible D. I would say, with the performance of other goalies, and having watched every punishing game, he took bad D beyond its predicted stats and actually crapped the bed beyond the point of being able to win more than lose.

My personal opinion

[Psytic]

Originally Posted by GullFoss

Right - so maybe Peters is a coach. Maybe. Lol...ok Maybe. But not really. But sure - maybe. Maybe. Maybe. I doubt it. But maybe. At best, he's maybe a good coach.

Is Darryl Sutter a good coach? Yes. Not even a debate.

Is AV a good coach? Yes. Not even a debate.

Why the #### would Tre take the "maybe at best" when there's two great coaches available.

I just pray the team is more fun to watch. I think it was a mistake to bring in a GM mentored in the Coyotes system. I sometimes wonder if he even knows what what entertaining hockey is. A team can be successful and entertaining. Its not just the lack of success that im worried about but the possible lack of entertainment value if he is infact GG 2.0.

[calgarywinning]

There is no chicken and egg argument here, Treliving basically fired Hartley and brought in his coaching staff which was a crescendo crash.

In the dejected fated presser, he came out and said Gulutzan was a good coach. That they would take their time to get someone with proven experience. One would assume that meant playoff and deep playoff coaching experience.

Peters does not fit the description of what he described. I'm really confused.

[Willi Plett]

Can anyone actually contrast Bill Peters system with GGs? All I find is similarities in what I find and read but surely there are some differences.

I would be very interested if someone could give any contrasts in the system. There were things I liked in GG system and some things I felt either didn’t work or didn’t work for our group of players at least. This is my biggest misgiving about the hire is that they employ a similar system. But similar isn’t necessarily (or even likely) the same.

So can anyone point out some differences?

Thanks if you can

[JohnnyB]

The fact that BT seems to have targeted both GG and Peters when other well-respected coaches with winning histories are available suggests to me that it's not likely Peters is being brought in to adapt or develop a system to fit the strengths of the players on the team or to mix things up with something new. It suggests to me that BT has a very clear idea of how he thinks the team should play and that both GG and Peters coach teams in that way. That is to say, he's not being brought in to provide anything new as much as he's being brought in to enforce what BT thinks the players should be doing. With how boring the Flames have become over the last two years, that prospect is depressing.

Seriously Brad, unlike you, most of us don't get paid to watch this team! I don't care about your vision if they stop being fun to cheer for.