[News] Flames hire Bill Peters as the franchise's 19th head coach

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

The two years before Carolina hired Peters, Staal scored 53 and 61 points. Peters did not magically cause a 70-point player to drop off the face of the earth. The drop-off was already happening.

uh 53 and 61 points in 127 games. That's a 74 point pace.

Originally Posted by Yamer

It's an odd argument to make because in almost all cases it balances out.

Brodie and Bennett struggled under GG. Monahan and Hamilton recorded career years. Which indicates the quality of GG?

The players who are great shooters thrived in a system that maximized shot volume. The players who are more dynamic and creative struggled.

It's not about the quality of GG it's about maximizing your roster. Monahan and Hamilton didn't stop being grest shooters under Hartley. Bennett and Brodie stopped being effective playmakers under Gulutzan. It did not balance out - we went from a top ten offensive team to a bottom ten offensive team if you compare the two year samples.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

My bad; misread the table.



If he's such a good player, and they gave up assets to acquire him at the deadline (the most expensive time of year to acquire players), why was he being used so little? Isn't that on Vigneault?

Who knows, you can ask AV.
Did you see how well it worked when Gully put Stewart in the top line?

Staal was a complementary piece and not intended to displace top line players? New team, takes time to find a role / chemistry? Lots of factors and small sample size

[Galakanokis]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Objectively? No sorry that's not true. Any opinions at this point, good or bad, are subjective.
The information we have is simply not enough to form an objective opinion.

So what's the point of all of this? Post the news and shut the thread down? Why have any of it open for discussion as we will never have all the facts on anything that happens around hockey and even deep dives won't show everything. So post that the game is on and that's it? Post the score and close the site?

This whole we don't have enough info, don't rush to judgement, any opinion formed without all the facts is not a good opinion crap is just complete bull####. People, believe it or not are able to form opinions on all kinds of things including hockey coaches based on available information. We do it in everyday life all the time. Hell, people probably married somebody and lived long happy lives with less info than we can gather on this coach.

People are unhappy with the direction of the team going back over two years and this move with the opportunity to make changes to the direction of this club does not look good at the moment. They are simply expressing their opinion. At least they have one, better in my mind than saying nothing so you can never be wrong and then being sanctimonious about not being wrong. I never said Gulutazan should not be fired just that we need more info before we rush to judgements...Happening more and more and it is bloody annoying.

It sounds like to me that the people that were unhappy with the Gulutzan hire see similar issues with the Peters hire and surprisingly enough are unhappy seeing how things have worked out with Gulutzan. Is there potential for things to work out? Of course, absolutely and 99% of Flames fan will be happy if it does. Doesn't mean they won't have reservations going in.

[SportsJunky]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Since you brought up Staal...

I tried pointing out that the guy only got 50 ish points out of Eric Staal, franchise player.
Canes fans complained about Peters turning Staal in to a middling winger. Obviously Staal is capable of 40 goals and over 70 points under Boudreau.

That somehow met a lot of resistance and dismissal here though.

One guy even suggested there were several players with career years under Peters. Even though Staal was his top scorer those first two years with 50 ish points and nobody has touched 70 points during his tenure.

This is the first we are hearing of this. Why did you wait until now to bring up this information?

[Itse]

Originally Posted by EVERLAST

Seriously if they can't try and out forth the effort to win no matter what system is implemented then we need new players that want to win and put in the effort.

What's the benefit of committing to a bad system? No amount of effort is going to cover for a really bad system. We saw that in the Brent Sutter years for example.

If the players fully commit to a system that is not conductive to winning, then they are committing to bad results and propping up a loser coach that would otherwise get fired.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Yamer

It's an odd argument to make because in almost all cases it balances out.

Brodie and Bennett struggled under GG. Monahan and Hamilton recorded career years. Which indicates the quality of GG?

Or you could look at it this way

Hamilton had his career year in Boston and has been flat here.
Monahan is in a natural development phase

Under GG, beyond Brodie and Bennett,
Gio took a step back,
Brouwer was not as advertised

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by SportsJunky

This is the first we are hearing of this. Why did you wait until now to bring up this information?

Last time, I promise.

If only every other piece of information could be addressed just once.

[killer_carlson]

Originally Posted by Fischy13

I can confirm that Pat Steinbergs tweet, is accurate. Not 100% it’s announced Monday but with Peters going to Denmark Wednesday, Monday is most likely.

I’d like to chime in on a few things from these threads.

First, Peter’s essentially put up the same winning percentage in Carolina as GG did in Calgary. IMO, Calgary has a far superior team. On top of that, I also believe that Carolina is in a tougher division as well. With Washington, Pitts, Columbus... being 10-15 million in payroll behind those teams.. I don’t see how he doesn’t improve the Flames. To add to that, bringing in a coach with similar fundamentals, is a change but with familiarity. I’d expect that weighed heavily on the decision. I don’t think the Flames can waste 1/4 of the season figuring it out. This brings in a new and more authoritative voice which is what the team needs.

Secondly, I can only assume that my source will be joining up on a site like this. I’ve seriously contemplated not pointing them to it. To be quite honest, I get the disappointment and by no means am I one with a millenial attitude, but I’m embarrassed for my source to come in and read some of these posts. BP is hung before he’s even been officially hired.

My source has already advised that we (my office staff) can’t be hard on BP and complain. I’d hate to be in their shoes and listen to this. It’s one thing for athletes and coaches to deal with the criticism, they get compensated for it. Family and relatives don’t.

Anyways, I’m working them now to find out the assistants. I’ve put in our request for a top end PP assistant. Still working to get BP’s cell #, but don’t hold your breath. Lol

Also add a request to try Brodie out on the RHS for the first 25 games next season and see if he's better

[Looch City]

Gulutzan fired, Peters resigned and Peters hired all within 1 week?

Something tells me this had been Treliving plan for a while. Didn't really matter which other coaches were available.

[Yamer]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

uh 53 and 61 points in 127 games. That's a 74 point pace.



The players who are great shooters thrived in a system that maximized shot volume. The players who are more dynamic and creative struggled.

It's not about the quality of GG it's about maximizing your roster. Monahan and Hamilton didn't stop being grest shooters under Hartley. Bennett and Brodie stopped being effective playmakers under Gulutzan. It did not balance out - we went from a top ten offensive team to a bottom ten offensive team if you compare the two year samples.

But we are not comparing seasons and team results in this argument, we are comparing players and their individual seasons.

The argument is that a star player struggled under a coach, therefore the coach is bad. However, other players excelled under the coach. Retaining that logic, does that make the coach good?

[Barca]

AV has coached in big markets like Van and NY, probably not a surprise that he didn't want to downgrade to a team with lots of question marks. He's probably holding out for Seattle or Anaheim if they fire Carlyle.

[zamler]

Originally Posted by the2bears

How about the poster who wrote this?



I'd say this makes them less of a Flames fan.

Originally Posted by RoughRiderRowdy

Cant wait for the flames to suck again next year under new coaches and for people to realize on here we simply dont have a good enough team

Maybe I'm misreading but isn't this a form of sarcasm? Like saying can't wait for next game so we can lose again to a much better team.

[Toonage]

No that reads like "I can't wait to say I told you so"

[Toonage]

Originally Posted by Iggy City

Gulutzan fired, Peters resigned and Peters hired all within 1 week?

Something tells me this had been Treliving plan for a while. Didn't really matter which other coaches were available.

Friedman said as much, yes.

[Yamer]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Or you could look at it this way

Hamilton had his career year in Boston and has been flat here.
Monahan is in a natural development phase

Under GG, beyond Brodie and Bennett,
Gio took a step back,
Brouwer was not as advertised

I could, but why? Again it all comes out even.

13 goals, 50 points, and +12 is objectively better than 10 goals, 42 points, and -3. By the numbers, those are the best Hamilton years with Calgary and Boston, respectively. Hamilton has improved every year since the trade.

Monahan = Teravainen. Both improved and developed under their respective coaches.

Gio is as good now as he ever was.

Brouwer is Brouwer. What were the expectations? He's a bottom 6 forward often playing out of his depth. GG misused him, IMO.

But I don't get how that, or any of this, is furthering your original argument.

[cannon7]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

How many of those 328 games did you watch? Beyond win/loss what else are you doing to make the evaluation?

I've seen plenty of Canes games the past four seasons. And not just games against the Flames. I'm probably not the only Flames fan who tuned out a handful of Flames games this season and just started watching other teams. I, also, like other posters here have dug through team statistics for the past four seasons. It all looks way too familiar.

What are you doing to evaluate Peters? He who casts the first stone and all...

The presumption that other posters are being irrational in their opinions is truly arrogant, by the way.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Yamer

And this might not be a popular opinion, but I think coaching a team to a Memorial Cup Championship is more difficult than the Stanley Cup.

Let's not pretend that Peters has absolutely no pedigree at all.

Surprised we did not go after Don Hay, he has won multiple Memorial Cups.

[Yamer]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Surprised we did not go after Don Hay, he has won multiple Memorial Cups.

I understand you might be joking, but is that the point I was trying to make?

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Fischy13

I can confirm that Pat Steinbergs tweet, is accurate. Not 100% it’s announced Monday but with Peters going to Denmark Wednesday, Monday is most likely.

I’d like to chime in on a few things from these threads.

First, Peter’s essentially put up the same winning percentage in Carolina as GG did in Calgary. IMO, Calgary has a far superior team. On top of that, I also believe that Carolina is in a tougher division as well. With Washington, Pitts, Columbus... being 10-15 million in payroll behind those teams.. I don’t see how he doesn’t improve the Flames. To add to that, bringing in a coach with similar fundamentals, is a change but with familiarity. I’d expect that weighed heavily on the decision. I don’t think the Flames can waste 1/4 of the season figuring it out. This brings in a new and more authoritative voice which is what the team needs.

Secondly, I can only assume that my source will be joining up on a site like this. I’ve seriously contemplated not pointing them to it. To be quite honest, I get the disappointment and by no means am I one with a millenial attitude, but I’m embarrassed for my source to come in and read some of these posts. BP is hung before he’s even been officially hired.

My source has already advised that we (my office staff) can’t be hard on BP and complain. I’d hate to be in their shoes and listen to this. It’s one thing for athletes and coaches to deal with the criticism, they get compensated for it. Family and relatives don’t.

Anyways, I’m working them now to find out the assistants. I’ve put in our request for a top end PP assistant. Still working to get BP’s cell #, but don’t hold your breath. Lol

I hope your source never finds this place. Not unless he/she has ridiculously thick skin.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Since you brought up Staal...

I tried pointing out that the guy only got 50 ish points out of Eric Staal, franchise player.
Canes fans complained about Peters turning Staal in to a middling winger. Obviously Staal is capable of 40 goals and over 70 points under Boudreau.

That somehow met a lot of resistance and dismissal here though.

One guy even suggested there were several players with career years under Peters. Even though Staal was his top scorer those first two years with 50 ish points and nobody has touched 70 points during his tenure.

Wasn’t staal already trending down before Peters?
Appears to be more at play there than the coach