Simple question: Season ticket holders... To renew or not to renew

[RM14]

They held prices flat in 2015/2016 due to oil prices tanking.

Otherwise, they will raise 3-5% every single year, and tall cans go up $0.25 every single year. This is not a surprise.

[Lanny_McDonald]

If Peters is behind the bench, does that make people more enthused or less enthused to renew?

[MacDaddy77]

Originally Posted by New Era

If Peters is behind the bench, does that make people more enthused or less enthused to renew?

I hold 50% of seasons and I told my brother yesterday if they hire Peters I'm done.

Mediocre season with Boring hockey and missed playoffs followed by Mediocre coaching hire.

I cant justify spending the money on tickets anymore with the product that's put on the ice. Sad to say but this last year has really made it difficult to keep tickets.

I'll still cheer for the flames and take my kids every now and then but as for seasons I'm done.

[Otto-matic]

I'll see how this season goes before I decide to jump on the hot house.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by theslymonkey

Here's the math on the beer:

Keg of Canadian is $340.
Keg holds 15.5 gallons of beer.
15.5 gallons divided into 12oz cups is about 165.
15.5 gallons divided into 16oz cups is about 124.

So the cost of a beer is $2.06 for a 12oz and $2.74 for a 16oz.
Plus the cup...

I can't remember if they serve 12 or 16oz, but lets assume 16 even though I think it's 12. That makes it a 72.5% margin on the beer not including the cup.

I think they're doing just fine on beer.

Actually, they are 20 oz, so 99 cups, assuming no waste - or $3.43 per cup (using your math)

More importantly, beer is part of HRR, so half of the price goes to the players. So $3.43 cost (before labour and other items) and $5 revenue.

I'm not suggesting they are losing money or anything, but the HRR split took much of the profit out of liquor and food sales for the teams.

[Northendzone]

my estimate was very conservative, but, yours is likely closer.

still seems pathetic to me that by selling it for $10 when the cost is $2 they still apparebntly need to add a "beer load" on the season ticket prices.

Originally Posted by TheOnlyBilko

You think COST is $3 or $4 per GLASS of DRAFT BEER?? LOL MAYBE $1.50 (on the high side)

[pepper24]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

First, this season the Flames did introduce a bunch of new beer types than the regular, so, not sure it’s fair to criticize for lack of selection and second, they are some of the lowest priced beer in the entire NHL (possibly the lowest). That’s an indictment on the league because it’s crazy but, that’s also kinda always the way it’s been.

Raising ticket prices after the worst season in franchise history? Because that’s honestly what the last season was. I think that’s ballsy and IMO kinda stupid because the market is fairly unhappy with the franchise. Just comes across as tone deaf. Like how they haven’t fired King after literally years of deserving it. Tone deaf.

Ah, no. Not even close.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Actually, they are 20 oz, so 99 cups, assuming no waste - or $3.43 per cup (using your math)

More importantly, beer is part of HRR, so half of the price goes to the players. So $3.43 cost (before labour and other items) and $5 revenue.

I'm not suggesting they are losing money or anything, but the HRR split took much of the profit out of liquor and food sales for the teams.

The HRR on concessions is calculated net of direct costs, including product costs and employee wages. The players' share on a $10 beer isn't $5. It's half of the net revenue from selling that beer.

Concessions: All revenues received by a Club or a Club Affiliated Entity derived from the sale of concessions, including any restaurant owned by a Club or a Club Affiliated Entity, in NHL arenas or on any street that is adjacent to the arena, on days on which that Club's NHL hockey games or NHL events take place, for such NHL game or NHL event (all such revenues net of Direct Costs, including, without limitation, product costs, and vendor and food-preparer salaries, but not including any depreciation and/or leasehold amortization expenses from in-house operations, provided, however, that for concessions sales locations operated in-house (as defined in the HRR Reporting Package) or through a Club Affiliated Entity, the Direct Costs relating to such concessions that may be netted against total revenues generated by concessions shall not exceed fifty-four (54) percent per League Year for such Clubs on an aggregated basis). The parties agree that revenues after netting of Direct Costs for concessions shall not be reported as a negative number (less than zero) for any individual Club;

[theslymonkey]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Actually, they are 20 oz, so 99 cups, assuming no waste - or $3.43 per cup (using your math)

More importantly, beer is part of HRR, so half of the price goes to the players. So $3.43 cost (before labour and other items) and $5 revenue.

I'm not suggesting they are losing money or anything, but the HRR split took much of the profit out of liquor and food sales for the teams.

My math is good, my costs are definitely inflated. That keg cost is what you and I would pay, which is way more than the Flames would. But I didn't realize the cups were 20oz which does affect the cost per beer. Regardless, it's still a very healthy margin, as it should be. Same goes for Popcorn, Fries, Pop and other food.

The HRR is a good point but not something that should really matter because that is a set share that has just as much to do with what the players are actually paid in comparison to what their contract dictates due to escrow. Players and owners both benefit from the profitability of beer so that doesn't change what the margin on beer should be.

I should state that I believe that any business should charge what the market will bear for the product in question. That goes for beer or ticket prices. If they believe that the increase will not negatively affect the profitability of their business, then they should raise prices. I still think being a season ticket holder outweighs not being one. But that's me.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by getbak

The HRR on concessions is calculated net of direct costs, including product costs and employee wages. The players' share on a $10 beer isn't $5. It's half of the net revenue from selling that beer.

Thanks for that. Point remains though, the profits from concessions are cut in half. And only direct costs are included.

The bottom line is that, even though we are paying very inflated prices for our beer, the profitability from it is half what the price suggests.

We should assume that the cost is less than the 'retail' keg numbers that theslymonkey presented. Let's throw $2 per glass out there as a guess. Then add $1 - $2 for employee wages and other direct costs. Putting their cost of a beer somewhere between $3 and $4.

That makes the profit margin for HRR $6 - $7, so the players get $3 - $3.50 and they make the same. My guess is that the direct costs are higher than that and the profitability is probably less, but it's a probably a reasonable number for conversation purposes.

Obviously they are making money on concessions, but some people think the $10 charge is 90% profit, and that simply isn't the case.

[theslymonkey]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Obviously they are making money on concessions, but some people think the $10 charge is 90% profit, and that simply isn't the case.

But this is business and I would wager that the majority of the public thinks this way. It's no different than any restaurant. A pizza joint changes $25 for a large pizza that has an actual cost of $5-$10 depending on ingredients. But then from the $15-20 profit the business owner has to pay for rent, equipment, staffing, licences, utilities, taxes... so the actual profit on that $25 pizza would probably be in the range of $2-5 after all that other stuff is taken into account.

The Flames ownership is taking probably a dollar from each beer, but at the volume they move they do just fine. As they should given what they have invested in the business.

[stone hands]

all i know for sure is the flames priced themselves out of probably thousands of dollars worth of alcohol purchases from me alone due to the insanely ridiculous prices of beer


if it was reasonable, i would probably have a few beers every game with my guests, but alas, i'm not paying $10 for a glass of budweiser outside of the remote occasion(maybe i'd get a beer on a friday/saturday night game, but that's it)

i cant be the only one

[wwkayaker]

More sports teams could learn from the Atlanta Falcons concession prices.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/25/s...ncessions.html

[MacDaddy77]

Originally Posted by stone hands

all i know for sure is the flames priced themselves out of probably thousands of dollars worth of alcohol purchases from me alone due to the insanely ridiculous prices of beer


if it was reasonable, i would probably have a few beers every game with my guests, but alas, i'm not paying $10 for a glass of budweiser outside of the remote occasion(maybe i'd get a beer on a friday/saturday night game, but that's it)

i cant be the only one

For me it has less to do with the price than my change in lifestyle. Sure the increase sucks but if I was still without kids and lived close to downtown I'd still drink 3-5 draft per game regardless of price.

Now living in Suburbia I drive to all the games so will only have 2 with the weekend games I don't take one of the kids to a rare exception.

[shermanator]

Beer at Calgary Foothills games was $6.50 last year (tallboys), and was $5 a pint (16 oz I think) the year before.

Just saying...

[stone hands]

Originally Posted by MacDaddy77

For me it has less to do with the price than my change in lifestyle. Sure the increase sucks but if I was still without kids and lived close to downtown I'd still drink 3-5 draft per game regardless of price.

Now living in Suburbia I drive to all the games so will only have 2 with the weekend games I don't take one of the kids to a rare exception.

luckily for me, my wife doesnt drink so i have a DD everywhere i go!

unluckily tho at the same time, that clip of 3-5 drinks per game(which i would probably go for if the prices were more reasonable) would add up to 1650 dollars in budweiser over the course of a season, thats bonkers and not feasible for me. this year i pretty much just drank the "free" pop i got with my PL tickets other than weekend games

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by wwkayaker

More sports teams could learn from the Atlanta Falcons concession prices.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/25/s...ncessions.html

Brand new publicly subsidized stadium...

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by wwkayaker

More sports teams could learn from the Atlanta Falcons concession prices.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/25/s...ncessions.html

This discussion got brought up before. That's cool and all, but that article litterally says nothing about the profitability of the concessions. A different article posted earlier this year on the same topic even highlighted while sales were up, profits on concession were down.

Also, that article goes on to say how much NFL revenue is generated from the TV contracts, and that teams could give away food and drink and it' be ok. Unfortunately the same is not true of the NHL. The Flames need the gate and concession revenue to turn a profit, so that business model is likely not applicable.

[GullFoss]

If Peters is the new coach, i'm most likely downgrading my seasons from Whites to Greens. I basically stopped attending games in February because the team was terrible.

If we get another season of being forced fed dog #### at the dome, I'd rather lose 80$ per game than $150 for the privileged of saying "thanks, but no thanks".

[calgarywinning]

Flames also did half price happy hour on beer/wine and food before the game this year. I wonder if this helped drive volume or no significant result.