[POLL] Calgary Flames coaching change mega-thread—with poll

[the_only_turek_fan]

One thing that should be noted about Peters is that hockey Canada is very high on him as he was an assistant in 2015 for the World Championship team and an assistant on the 2016 World Cup team.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by the_only_turek_fan

One thing that should be noted about Peters is that hockey Canada is very high on him as he was an assistant in 2015 for the World Championship team and an assistant on the 2016 World Cup team.

They have also in Hockey Canada had a lot of coaches like Eakins, McLellan, etc. engaged and successful with stacked rosters, short tournaments, and teams assembled for the tournament that because they spend such a brief time together can’t really be scouted to the level of depth of a NHL team

[the_only_turek_fan]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski

If the Flames made the playoffs this year, they would be the slowest team in the West.

Treliving needs to fix this. I've read people don't think the Flames are a slow team. They are not fast.

Who are the fast skaters?

Makes me think Brouwer is gone.

Maybe they trade Frolik too.

Does Dube make the team or is he headed to the AHL?

[direwolf]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski

If the Flames made the playoffs this year, they would be the slowest team in the West.

Treliving needs to fix this. I've read people don't think the Flames are a slow team. They are not fast.

Who are the fast skaters?

Gaudreau, Brodie, Backs, Lazar, and Bennett are probably the fastest guys we have. But they're nowhere near as quick as guys like MacKinnon, McDavid, Kucherov, etc.. I'd say an upgrade in the speed department should definitely be a priority this summer.

[the_only_turek_fan]

Peters is not my first choice but he seems to have a higher pedigree in hockey circles than Glen Gulutzan.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

They have also in Hockey Canada had a lot of coaches like Eakins, McLellan, etc. engaged and successful with stacked rosters, short tournaments, and teams assembled for the tournament that because they spend such a brief time together can’t really be scouted to the level of depth of a NHL team

Like who?

Eakins never coached internationally, and McLellan has, but he also has “pedigree” like you keep talking about. A Stanley Cup as an assistant coach and 7 playoff appearances in the last 10 years as a head coach.

So I’m not sure what you’re trying to say by naming two people with wildly different pedigrees, one of whom has never coached internationally.

[Red]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Like who?

Eakins never coached internationally, and McLellan has, but he also has “pedigree” like you keep talking about. A Stanley Cup as an assistant coach and 7 playoff appearances in the last 10 years as a head coach.

So I’m not sure what you’re trying to say by naming two people with wildly different pedigrees, one of whom has never coached internationally.

An old Flames skipper Don Hay immediately comes to mind. He was in the running for the Flames worst coach ever. Not sure if he won though.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by timbit

As an addendum to your post, also important to note is that Peter has until midnight tomorrow to accept an offer and sign a contract with another team or stay obliged to complete the last year of his contract with Carolina.

Don Waddell, the POHO of Carolina , confirmed this late this afternoon.

Where did Waddell confirm this? Google and Twitter searches don't return anything more than what was reported a couple of days ago that Peters has until Friday to exercise his out clause, nothing about him actually needing to sign with another team before then.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by direwolf

Gaudreau, Brodie, Backs, Lazar, and Bennett are probably the fastest guys we have. But they're nowhere near as quick as guys like MacKinnon, McDavid, Kucherov, etc.. I'd say an upgrade in the speed department should definitely be a priority this summer.

Brodie is not fast. I remember multiple times where he could not get back because of his lack of speed. He does have good agility but not speed.

[JTech780]

In the history of the NHL only 3 coaches have won Cups with multiple teams.

Mike Sullivan had zero playoff success as coach and now he has 2 Cups.

Quenneville had never been to a Cup final before going to Chicago and now has 3 Cups.

Claude Julien had two playoff appearances before going to Boston and winning a Cup.

This idea that we need a proven winner is a load of crap.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Brodie is not fast. I remember multiple times where he could not get back because of his lack of speed. He does have good agility but not speed.

He has speed. Just didn't see it this year.
Perhaps it's that Give a Frack meter folks are talking about within the team.
Brodie skates like the wind.

I also think the brain lapsing system they played in did not allow the D men to skate like they can anyways. There was no flow to get going. Brodie can skate, we've all seen it but are perhaps forgetting because of recency bias.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Like who?

Eakins never coached internationally, and McLellan has, but he also has “pedigree” like you keep talking about. A Stanley Cup as an assistant coach and 7 playoff appearances in the last 10 years as a head coach.

So I’m not sure what you’re trying to say by naming two people with wildly different pedigrees, one of whom has never coached internationally.

Mistype on Eakins. Sorry, my mistake. Not actually critical to the point.

The whole point, I think, was obvious nonetheless. It is that coaching Hockey Canada international rosters is not the same as coaching a NHL roster for the reasons I listed.

- stacked roster top to bottom
- short tournament
- short duration team is together therefore not scouted deeply

Not even close to the grind of a NHL season

Not terribly relevant in evaluating a coach’s potential in the NHL

Clearer?

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Mistype on Eakins. Sorry, my mistake. Not actually critical to the point.

The whole point, I think, was obvious nonetheless. It is that coaching Hockey Canada international rosters is not the same as coaching a NHL roster for the reasons I listed.

- stacked roster top to bottom
- short tournament
- short duration team is together therefore not scouted deeply

Not even close to the grind of a NHL season

Not terribly relevant in evaluating a coach’s potential in the NHL

Clearer?

But I think these selections by Hockey Canada speak pretty powerfully to a coach's reputation within the guild. I don't think it is so much a criterion for evaluation as it is an external reflection of some of the he good qualities that a general manager would find appealing.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Red

An old Flames skipper Don Hay immediately comes to mind. He was in the running for the Flames worst coach ever. Not sure if he won though.

You mean the guy with <160 games of NHL coaching experience, yet who holds the record for coaching wins in the WHL and has, subsequently, only ever been asked to coached internationall at the U20 and U18 levels, where he’s had a ton of success?

Seems like a good choice for Hockey Canada too.

Thing with Peters, though, is unlike Hay, he’s actually been asked to coach tournaments with grown men and bonafide NHL players in them—repeatedly.

Are we going to start saying that Hockey Canada doesn’t know what they’re doing either? That they’re just grabbing magic beans?

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by JTech780

In the history of the NHL only 3 coaches have won Cups with multiple teams.

Mike Sullivan had zero playoff success as coach and now he has 2 Cups.

Quenneville had never been to a Cup final before going to Chicago and now has 3 Cups.

Claude Julien had two playoff appearances before going to Boston and winning a Cup.

This idea that we need a proven winner is a load of crap.

1. Sullivan - Crosby and Malkin down the middle . This is not a normal comparison. They just needed a coach to get out of their way.
2. Quenneville made the playoffs his first 7 seasons, also went to round 2 twice and round 3 once
3. Julien - yes he had playoff appearances most years in his coaching career before winning all 4 rounds

Peters - 0 for 4 even making the playoffs

Sure it is technically possible that a guy who has never won could win.

There is a difference between hope and a load of crap

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

But I think these selections by Hockey Canada speak pretty powerfully to a coach's reputation within the guild. I don't think it is so much a criterion for evaluation as it is an external reflection of some of the he good qualities that a general manager would find appealing.

Sure, and I’d be intrigued to know what they like about him.
Because it has not translated to any success in the NHL.

Hey, they can hire him and he could be good. Just the skeptical narrative has more surface evidence to support than the hopeful narrative

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Mistype on Eakins. Sorry, my mistake. Not actually critical to the point.

Not terribly relevant in evaluating a coach’s potential in the NHL

Clearer?

Mistype on Eakins, so... what’s the deal with naming McLellan? He’s actually closer to the Sutter/Vignault pedigree than the Peters one, so I’m not sure what your point was there.

If your only point was that it’s not relevant and you were just making up names, fine, but I disagree anyways. As Textcritic said, it’s a reflection of some of those qualities that we as fans CANT see. That, despite a bad record in Carolina, he’s asked again and again to coach internationally. Why? Hard to say from the outside, but it’s not random chance.

Is it relevant to their potential? Absolutely, and maybe more-so that their record. Their record only tells you what they have and haven’t done, not what they can and can’t do. They’re human beings. If an organisation like Hockey Canada puts faith in Bill Peters over and over, I think that’s a sterling indication of his potential. Will he reach it? Maybe not, but it’s there.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Sure, and I’d be intrigued to know what they like about him.
Because it has not translated to any success in the NHL.

Hey, they can hire him and he could be good. Just the skeptical narrative has more surface evidence to support than the hopeful narrative

I find it bizarre that you would work so hard to maintain your determined insistence that Peters is a terrible coach rather than let things play out. As you yourself just said—he could be good.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I find it bizarre that you would work so hard to maintain your determined insistence that Peters is a terrible coach rather than let things play out. As you yourself just said—he could be good.

I don’t insist he is terrible. Just very, very confused that Tre would stick his neck out on someone who looks like a lateral move.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by dammage79

He has speed. Just didn't see it this year.
Perhaps it's that Give a Frack meter folks are talking about within the team.
Brodie skates like the wind.

I also think the brain lapsing system they played in did not allow the D men to skate like they can anyways. There was no flow to get going. Brodie can skate, we've all seen it but are perhaps forgetting because of recency bias.

No kidding, Brodie's jets are exceptional. I'd only definitively say Erik Karlsson is a faster skater. I remember one sequence a few years back where Nathan MacKinnon had a full two steps and open ice on Brodie off a bit of a PP breakdown and Brodie managed to not only catch up on the backcheck but completely break up whatever MacKinnon was about to do. He's fast.

No one played fast under Laissez Faire Glen. Or used their skating skill as an advantage in general.