[POLL] Calgary Flames coaching change mega-thread—with poll

[JJolg]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Why is Peters not a magic can of beans to everyone including the GM ?

The expectation must be that given a NHL roster that he can improve their play get them to the playoffs (and presumably do better than that).

Has he ever won a playoff game? No.
Has he ever made the playoffs? No.
Can he? Who knows.

There is no proof that he can do it. Only extrapolation, hand waving and hope.

If it walks like magic beans, and quacks like magic beans, it is magic beans, is it not?

Any coach coming into this situation is magic beans except for glen.
Ken Hitchcock hit all your criteria for the Stars to hire him and it worked out poorly. Treliving and his team will have there criteria for what they want in a coach and will find the candidate that is available and willing to take on the role. According to the fan the flames tried to talk to Peters before Gully was hired the first time around so Brad obviously feels like they are on the same page on how they want the team to operate.

[timbit]

Originally Posted by The Boy Wonder

I find it disengeneous to assume that “fans” don’t know as much as “people in hockey” there’s only so much analysis you need to do to know a coaches system and many of us can see it enough to make relatively educated opinions.

All the game film is out there. You can’t tell me that a gm knows more because he knows who had the runs before the game and who didn’t. And that’s why someone played better than someone else.

Wisdom and knowledge gained through vocational and specialized experience would substantially tip the scales.

Would it not?

Out of context and far more serious, but analogous , nonetheless...

Should one have a cardiac arrest , would it be a given and understandable decision for that person to prefer a cardiologist attend to him/ her as opposed to a medical student or somebody who had watched a lot of film on heart issues.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Red

If Treliving were to do a pros and cons list, what would he put for Peters pros?

Cheaper?

In Sutter, AV and Peters you get:
Red and Yellow corvettes that won a couple races and came close other times versus a mystery car that has never been to the race.

A bit puzzled what bag of magic beans Peters is selling to Tre.

Well the things that we know we're getting from Peters are:

- High levels of discipline (which played a bigger part in the success of our 2015 team than puck luck did)

- A strong PK (CAR's PK has finished 4th, 6th, 6th, and 24th under him. Calgary's PK has finished 21st, 30th, 12th, 7th over the same span). Both Calgary's bad year and Peters' bad year were tied to significant goaltending issues.

- The above combination allowed CAR to be :

1st
1st
1st
5th

in PPGA in Carolina. While Calgary was:



4th
27th
22nd
14th

- A strong possession game (whether you think that matters or not after the Gulutzan debacle, it's regardless a selling a point for any NHL coach)

I don't know what else he is selling. I'm hardly sold on him. But I will say that he's a far more revered candidate than Gulutzan ever was.

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Why is Peters not a magic can of beans to everyone including the GM ?

The expectation must be that given a NHL roster that he can improve their play get them to the playoffs (and presumably do better than that).

Has he ever won a playoff game? No.
Has he ever made the playoffs? No.
Can he? Who knows.

There is no proof that he can do it. Only extrapolation, hand waving and hope.

If it walks like magic beans, and quacks like magic beans, it is magic beans, is it not?

I mean, Randy Carlyle just got swept and he's won a playoff game, made the playoffs, won a cup, etc.

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by Toonage

Peters did have to sell anything. Treliving went to him.

[DeluxeMoustache]

So basically the argument boils down to

A) this guy has a track record of being unsuccessful, and there are many available who are proven winners, what on earth is Treliving thinking?
vs
B) Treliving knows more about hockey than you

Right?

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by The Boy Wonder

I find it disengeneous to assume that “fans” don’t know as much as “people in hockey” there’s only so much analysis you need to do to know a coaches system and many of us can see it enough to make relatively educated opinions.

All the game film is out there. You can’t tell me that a gm knows more because he knows who had the runs before the game and who didn’t. And that’s why someone played better than someone else.

And I think its arrogant to assume that fans know anywhere near as much as hockey people about hockey.

As far as coaching and Bill Peters go

Treliving has worked with Peters before
Has the opportunity to talk with players who've been coached by Peters
Has the opportunity to talk with coaches who worked with Peters
Has the opportunity to talk with other managers about Peters
Has the opportunity to talk with Peters himself
Has a video coach at his disposal who he can assign to break down video of Peters' teams
Has a stats guru at his disposal who he can assign to do statistical breakdowns of Peters' teams

You have none of that information.

So no, fans don't have anywhere near the same amount of information about a coach and its frickin preposterous to suggest you do. Assinine take. Give your head a shake

[Red]

I still go back to Treliving's hand tipping comment that he wanted an experienced coach. Would Peters check that box? Not in my view.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Red

I still go back to Treliving's hand tipping comment that he wanted an experienced coach. Would Peters check that box? Not in my view.

From what I remember of the press conference it was a question about NHL experience. Treliving said NHL experience was a must. Peters does check that box as he has 7 years of experience coaching at the NHL level. 3 as an assistant under Babcock and 4 as a Head Coach. How is he not experienced? Not saying I fully endorse the guy but to argue he isn't experienced seems a bit crazy.

I think Treliving was basically saying he's not going to hire a guy out of college or the CHL who has never coached at the NHL level. That's how I took his reply.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

I mean, Randy Carlyle just got swept and he's won a playoff game, made the playoffs, won a cup, etc.

Sure, and with Carlyle you have a body of work including varying degrees of success.
You can analyze what worked in which cases, what didn’t , etc

Look, 15 out of 16 coaches lose their last game of the year (and series)
Below them are 15 (used to be 14) coaches that didn’t make the playoffs

With Carlyle, you know that in a certain situation he can succeed. Because he has.

With Peters, your body of work is only seasons that didn’t work and reasons things didn’t work.

4 consistent seasons, no playoffs.

[Red]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

And I think its arrogant to assume that fans know anywhere near as much as hockey people about hockey.

As far as coaching and Bill Peters go

Treliving has worked with Peters before
Has the opportunity to talk with players who've been coached by Peters
Has the opportunity to talk with coaches who worked with Peters
Has the opportunity to talk with other managers about Peters
Has the opportunity to talk with Peters himself
Has a video coach at his disposal who he can assign to break down video of Peters' teams
Has a stats guru at his disposal who he can assign to do statistical breakdowns of Peters' teams

You have none of that information.

So no, fans don't have anywhere near the same amount of information about a coach and its frickin preposterous to suggest you do. Assinine take. Give your head a shake

Way to go off the deep end here. He had all that when he hired Gulutzan and signed Brouwer and traded for Hamonic....and on and on.
Noone is suggesting that we know more. We are suggesting that the hockey world has made similarly bad calls on guys like Gulutzan, Gilbert or Eakins to name a few.

GMs hire people they know, not people who are the best.

[PugnaciousIntern]

Was checking out the Canes' message boards to get a feel of what they think about Peters. Found this gem of a response, in context of their lack of GM and other management:

I honestly don't think we'll even be in contact with his agent.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Red

Way to go off the deep end here. He had all that when he hired Gulutzan and signed Brouwer and traded for Hamonic....and on and on.
Noone is suggesting that we know more. We are suggesting that the hockey world has made similarly bad calls on guys like Gulutzan, Gilbert or Eakins to name a few.

GMs hire people they know, not people who are the best.

Don't disagree on any of that.

I still think his take was preposterous. Do calgarypuck fans know anywhere near as much about Bill Peters as Treliving does? Hell no. That doesn't mean Peters would be a great hire or not. But the suggestion that we know anywhere near the same amount as hockey people is utterly ridiculous.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by joejoe3

Spoiler!

Well, you can take this one off the list. Looks like his unemployment was short lived.

Photoshop that to be a Dairy Queen and have him serving a cake to Hartley.

[Red]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

From what I remember of the press conference it was a question about NHL experience. Treliving said NHL experience was a must. Peters does check that box as he has 7 years of experience coaching at the NHL level. 3 as an assistant under Babcock and 4 as a Head Coach. How is he not experienced? Not saying I fully endorse the guy but to argue he isn't experienced seems a bit crazy.

I think Treliving was basically saying he's not going to hire a guy out of college or the CHL who has never coached at the NHL level. That's how I took his reply.

In context of Gulutzan departure and only having a few years in the NHL, I thought he mean someone with a lot of experience. 4 years as a HC of one team is not a lot.

This led me on the AV or Sutter train. But maybe I misunderstood his comment.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Flames Fan, Ph.D.

How would you know who the best candidates are when you just fired your coach earlier on in the week and likely haven't spoken to many candidates?

This would make sense to me if Peters was Tre's guy back when he joined the Flames and he's been biding his time ever since. Sounds unlikely, but possible I guess.

In any case I'm at a loss to explain why we're not interviewing people, or waiting to interview / solicit interest from quality assistant coaches who may soon be knocked out of the playoffs.

Generally speaking, the best candidates are the ones with experience and proven track records. There is a reason why some coaches get picked up fast after they leave other teams. Going by what Treliving said, he wants someone with experience.

If you wait too long, you end up having to fish around for the next up and coming coach, but you also risk getting a Gulutzan.

I'm not in a huge rush personally to find out who the next coach will be, but I don't think it would be wise to wait too long. There are still possibly some coaches that will be let go if they bust in the first round of the playoffs, but likely by the third round, I hope Treliving hones in on his guy before someone else jumps in. Just my own opinion, but I strongly believe that is exactly what happened when the Flames were left holding the bag and poached Gulutzan from the Canucks.

I have no opinion on Peters really. Seems like he is authoritarian enough to get more out of this team though.

[JJFlash]

No need to go hiking with the candidates lets go right into the Javelin throwing event.

[timbit]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Generally speaking, they best candidates are the ones with experience and proven track records. There is a reason why some coaches get picked up fast after they leave other teams. Going by what Treliving said, he wants someone with experience.

If you wait too long, you end up having to fish around for the next up and coming coach, but you also risk getting a Gulutzan.

I'm not in a huge rush personally to find out who the next coach will be, but I don't think it would be wise to wait too long. There are still possibly some coaches that will be let go if they bust in the first round of the playoffs, but likely by the third round, I hope Treliving hones in on his guy before someone else jumps in. Just my own opinion, but I strongly believe that is exactly what happened when the Flames were left holding the bag and poached Gulutzan from the Canucks.

I have no opinion on Peters really. Seems like he is authoritarian enough to get more out of this team though.

As an addendum to your post, also important to note is that Peter has until midnight tomorrow to accept an offer and sign a contract with another team or stay obliged to complete the last year of his contract with Carolina.

Don Waddell, the POHO of Carolina , confirmed this late this afternoon.

[The Boy Wonder]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

And I think its arrogant to assume that fans know anywhere near as much as hockey people about hockey.

As far as coaching and Bill Peters go

Treliving has worked with Peters before
Has the opportunity to talk with players who've been coached by Peters
Has the opportunity to talk with coaches who worked with Peters
Has the opportunity to talk with other managers about Peters
Has the opportunity to talk with Peters himself
Has a video coach at his disposal who he can assign to break down video of Peters' teams
Has a stats guru at his disposal who he can assign to do statistical breakdowns of Peters' teams

You have none of that information.

So no, fans don't have anywhere near the same amount of information about a coach and its frickin preposterous to suggest you do. Assinine take. Give your head a shake

But we see the same results and from what I’ve seen on this board at least someone always nails the exact reason why something happened.

Maybe we can’t be at 100% of what the gm knows that is absolutely fair but we can definitely have enough knowledge to be about 60-70% of the way there at minimum.

So yes our opinions may not be perfect but to discount them entirely is just as wrong as assuming fans are as smart as the gm

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by timbit

As an addendum to your post, also important to note is that Peter has until midnight tomorrow to accept an offer and sign a contract with another team or stay obliged to complete the last year of his contract with Carolina.

Don Waddell, the POHO of Carolina , confirmed this late this afternoon.

I thought I saw noon on Friday, not midnight.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

I agree that the Flames would have gotten destroyed in the playoffs.

If the Flames made the playoffs this year, they would be the slowest team in the West.

Treliving needs to fix this. I've read people don't think the Flames are a slow team. They are not fast.

Who are the fast skaters?