[POLL] Calgary Flames coaching change mega-thread—with poll

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

I think you can think it is horrible because Tre can approach anyone. Sky is the limit

This guy has 4 crap NHL seasons

Why are you really surprised?

There is a lot of extrapolation, hand waving and hope with this guy, rather than some shiny beautiful success to look at.

He's coaching a cap floor team.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Well if you're so convinced just from the looking at the standings I guess you must be right.

ROFL

Translation: You have nothing.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Except those teams were not mediocre. I could strongly argue that Carolina's lineup last year was better than ours depth wise. Not even close really.

Go ahead, do an in depth analysis of how CAR had better depth than us.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Translation: You have nothing.

When the Flames acquire a player, do you look at that team's position in the standings to determine whether or not that player is any good?

[Reign of Fire]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

https://twitter.com/user/status/987095162508603392

Being a Jaguars fan, Tre is starting to remind me of Gene Smiff. Where everyone sees you as a hard worker, but the results are pretty weak. If this is who he is going with, it should mean that his own job is on the line. He has been pretty subpar in his decision making when it comes to coaches and it's going to be pretty ####ty to watch him throw another couple of years down the drain.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

And yet nobody has come knocking since he was fired over a year ago.

I'd be wiling to bet Darryl Sutter never coaches another game in the NHL.

You do, of course, have evidence to support your assertion, Cliff? Or should we just assume you are talking out of your ass, as usual?

[midniteowl]

I'm confused, if Peters haven't yet taken his out clause, he is still under contract with Carolina, right? How can the Flames negotiate with him, let alone hire him.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

If Peters ends up being the guy...Treliving is really putting his neck on the line in my opinion.
.

I'd like to understand this more.
No coach is a guarantee of success. So the bottom line is that Tre likely needs this hire to work out regardless of whether it is an experienced coach or a less experienced one.
Which is to say, his neck is out there on the basis of whether this works or not. Not the type of coach he hires.
If he hires Darryl Sutter and they miss the playoffs for the next 2 years is that any different than hiring Bill Petey and missing the playoffs 2 straight years.

So then it really comes down to him picking the guy he thinks gives him the best chance of success. And that's the only rationale way he would approach this.

What am I missing?

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Translation: You have nothing.

I'm not arguing Peters is the next amazing coach. I know very little about Peters. From what little I have read and watched I think he looks better than GG did when he was hired. How much better could he be? We won't be able to know until he coaches here if he does indeed come here.

I'm asking for you to provide proof to your claim that he'd be worse than GG. Something you haven't done at all. All is see is emotional raging against the possibility. You can't really know he'd be worse than GG, you don't have the information required to know that. It's pretty obvious.

You have a strong opinion on a topic that clearly we're all very uninformed about. The certainty of your convictions doesn't match the lack of information we have.

[JurassicTunga12]

We really need to hit it out of the park on the special teams hires. It cost us BIG this season.
It's huge to have Dave Cameron out of the picture. Horrible pp. One of the worst ever.

[Yamer]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Glen Gulutzan NHL coaching record: 146-125

Bill Peters NHL coaching record: 137-138

GG got us to the playoffs with a team that finished near the bottom of the NHL a year before, Peters has never had a sniff of the playoffs in 4 years in Carolina. I am not buying the whole Carolina's roster was so bad crap either, they had some pretty good forward depth along with a good young D. I know Peters is worse than Glen Gulutzan because the records and stats say so. This is a team that absolutely cannot afford to toil in mediocrity again and so the solution is to hire a below .500 coach? It is pure stupidity, bring in an experienced coach who has had success at this level. Even if it has to be Tippett that is fine but if it is Bill f'n Peters I will save myself the anguish of watching another crap season.

On the other hand, management and staff in Carolina are some of the most handcuffed personnel in the league. Their roster over the last 4 years have been equal to or lesser than the Flames, IMO. And the Flames at least received competent goaltending in 2 of those 4 years.

For the record, I am unimpressed with this news and, if this is the way it plays out, will be unimpressed with the hire. Same feelings I had with Gulutzan.

However, like with Gulutzan I will wait for the results. It sounds like Peters has a different personality and is more adaptable than Gulutzan has shown to be. Even if he has a similar style (possession based), perhaps he is a better fit.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

He's coaching a cap floor team.

Excuses for failure is not the same as success.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Go ahead, do an in depth analysis of how CAR had better depth than us.

Easily. Jeff Skinner/Derek Ryan/Lee Stempniak is better than Bennett/Jankowski/Hathaway. I will take Nordstrom, Roy, and Zykov over Lazar/Stajan/Brouwer any day.

They have 2 young junior stud D men on the last pairing in Fleury/McKeown.
They had a good young player in Elias Lindholm that has not developed well under Peters not to mention how bad he neutered Eric Staal. Better yet, why would you even take the chance with this guy when you have proven vet options?? Give me the reasoning why all the sudden this guy is the better choice FDW?

[sureLoss]

Originally Posted by midniteowl

I'm confused, if Peters haven't yet taken his out clause, he is still under contract with Carolina, right? How can the Flames negotiate with him, let alone hire him.

The Canes have been giving permission to talk with him:

https://twitter.com/user/status/985938224035057664

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Easily. Jeff Skinner/Derek Ryan/Lee Stempniak is better than Bennett/Jankowski/Hathaway. I will take Nordstrom, Roy, and Zykov over Lazar/Stajan/Brouwer any day.

They have 2 young junior stud D men on the last pairing in Fleury/McKeown.
They had a good young player in Elias Lindholm that has not developed well under Peters not to mention how bad he neutered Eric Staal. Better yet, why would you even take the chance with this guy when you have proven vet options?? Give me the reasoning why all the sudden this guy is the better choice FDW?

I'm not arguing this guy is the better choice.

I'm arguing you can't possibly have the information required to be as strongly against this possible hire as your posts make you out to be.

When it comes to evaluating coaches that coach teams we barely see we're all completely uninformed on the topic. When you're uninformed on a topic you shouldn't be talking with the kind of certainty and absolutes you have used.

That's my point.

I get why people would be skeptical or even discouraged. But to be raging mad? I don't see how we have enough information to be that convicted about the subject. We're all completely uninformed about Peters. No one here is a Bill Peters expert. We have a lot of information about AV, Sutter and Gulutzan having seen them up close for multiple seasons. Bill Peters? He's a relative unknown for all of us. So I don't see how anyone can be so convinced he's the right or wrong choice. All we can do is trust the GM makes what he thinks is the best decision and hopes it works out. I understand why people want AV or Sutter or Trotz or whoever. I don't understand how anyone can be raging mad about the possibility of Peters being hired. He could be one of the best choices available. We just don't have enough information to possibly know ourselves. Hopefully Treliving does have a lot of information.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I'd like to understand this more.
No coach is a guarantee of success. So the bottom line is that Tre likely needs this hire to work out regardless of whether it is an experienced coach or a less experienced one.
Which is to say, his neck is out there on the basis of whether this works or not. Not the type of coach he hires.
If he hires Darryl Sutter and they miss the playoffs for the next 2 years is that any different than hiring Bill Petey and missing the playoffs 2 straight years.

So then it really comes down to him picking the guy he thinks gives him the best chance of success. And that's the only rationale way he would approach this.

What am I missing?

It is different because if he hires Sutter and they miss he can point back to Sutter's track record as a coach and justify why he thought he could take them to the next level. If he hires Peters and we miss everyone will be asking wtf he was thinking hiring a below .500 coach to take this team to the next level. If he hires D Sutter and we miss he might keep his job, he hires Peters and we stumble out of the gate I think he is gone by Christmas.

[Toonage]

To reiterate a thought of mine from several days ago which is more relevant today:

If Peters is their guy, I can only assume its because he's a meaner version of Gulutzan. Plays the style that Treliving wants to see from his team but might command a bit more respect.

[The Yen Man]

I really hope it's not Bill Peters. Sounds like Gulutzen 2.0. What's the point. May as well have kept Gulutzen (but still fired Cameron).

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

I'm not arguing this guy is the better choice.

I'm arguing you can't possibly have the information required to be as strongly against this hire as your posts make you out to be.

When it comes to evaluating coaches that coach teams we barely see we're all completely uninformed on the topic. When you're uninformed on a topic you shouldn't be talking with the kind of certainty and absolutes you have used.

That's my point.

The absolute for me here is after the last disaster you don't go hire a coach who has a losing NHL record and has never made the playoffs to take this team to the level they should be at when there are options to hire coaches that have had success before. I see a guy in AV that has had tremendous success in the NHL, I see a guy in D Sutter who has 2 SC rings, hell I even see a guy in Tippett who I am not the biggest fan of that has had success in the playoffs. The fanbase is disgruntled and the organization is in a fragile place and the answer is a coach with no success over 4 years? F that...

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I'd like to understand this more.
No coach is a guarantee of success. So the bottom line is that Tre likely needs this hire to work out regardless of whether it is an experienced coach or a less experienced one.
Which is to say, his neck is out there on the basis of whether this works or not. Not the type of coach he hires.
If he hires Darryl Sutter and they miss the playoffs for the next 2 years is that any different than hiring Bill Petey and missing the playoffs 2 straight years.

So then it really comes down to him picking the guy he thinks gives him the best chance of success. And that's the only rationale way he would approach this.

What am I missing?

From the perspective of Treliving's future in Calgary, it doesn't really matter who he picks if we fumble the next two years. He'll be gone anyway.

But, IMO, if Treliving pulls back to back 'smartest guy in the room' coaching hires and both fail, he's likely doing far greater damage to his future prospects of getting a second GM job in this league than if he goes with a more proven/'safer' choice.