[POLL] Calgary Flames coaching change mega-thread—with poll

[The Fonz]

Originally Posted by Peaceful Warrior

In other words, 4 years in to their careers as coaches, Sutter and Vigneault had very similar success as Peters has had. And in the last few years all three have had similar records with Peters probably having the least impressive line-up, and goaltending that doesn't compare to Quick or Lundqvist.

Keeps being said though, why hire a guy and hope that he turns out to be a great coach, when there are coaches on the market for hire who have proven they are great.

It's the Family Guy mystery package/boat scenario playing out in real life. Vigneault, Sutter, and Trotz, are boats. We're going to hire Peters, because he could be anything, he could even be a boat!

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

F no!!!!!!!!!!!! I seriously would rather have kept GG. I may find something better to do with my Winter next year than watch this team piss more seasons away. Surely BT cannot be this stupid....

What on earth makes you think Peters is worse than GG? How could you possibly know that?

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Carolina currently does not have a GM and the organization is an absolute mess.

They can have BT if he is dumb enough to hire Peters. Maybe not right away but certainly after Christmas rolls around and we are in the basement of the Pacific.

[Kovaz]

Originally Posted by IamNotKenKing

What exactly is meant by "50/50 hockey"?

It has been bandied about a lot, but I do not know what it means.

I don't think it means we have a 50% chance of winning any game or play within a game, but don't know exactly what Gulutzan means when he uses it, nor what others mean when they use it.

My interpretation is it means playing at 5v5 in a way that errs heavily on the side of caution, prioritizing not making mistakes over taking risks to potentially create plays. Same thing as "playing not to lose". So if you keep the chances low on both ends of the ice, games tend to come down to which team gets the bounces, and in the long run they even out to 50/50.

It can work if you've got great special teams, a great goalie, or great shooters, but depending on your opinion of Mike Smith we've got either zero or one of those things, and the other two are clear weaknesses. So IMO our team is better off trying to win 5-4 than 1-0 at 5v5.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by The Fonz

Keeps being said though, why hire a guy and hope that he turns out to be a great coach, when there are coaches on the market for hire who have proven they are great.

It's the Family Guy mystery package/boat scenario playing out in real life. Vigneault, Sutter, and Trotz, are boats. We're going to hire Peters, because he could be anything, he could even be a boat!

Why would anyone fire AV or Darryl then?

I truly believe finding the right coach for a team is by far the most complicated and difficult task for any GM. It's not simple. It's not as easy as picking the guy with the best record.

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

What on earth makes you think Peters is worse than GG? How could you possibly know that?

He can't be, but I wonder how much better he is....

[Peaceful Warrior]

Originally Posted by The Fonz

Keeps being said though, why hire a guy and hope that he turns out to be a great coach, when there are coaches on the market for hire who have proven they are great.

It's the Family Guy mystery package/boat scenario playing out in real life. Vigneault, Sutter, and Trotz, are boats. We're going to hire Peters, because he could be anything, he could even be a boat!

Except in the past few years, with arguably superior teams, and certainly superior goaltending, Sutter and Vigneault haven't been boats, they have been Bill Peters.

[midniteowl]

Originally Posted by The Fonz

It's the Family Guy mystery package/boat scenario playing out in real life. Vigneault, Sutter, and Trotz, are boats. We're going to hire Peters, because he could be anything, he could even be a boat!

With no disrespect to you Fonz, but I find this genuinely funny. I was laughing at my screen out loud when I read this, and people think I've gone mad.

[mrdonkey]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

What on earth makes you think Peters is worse than GG? How could you possibly know that?

2014-15: 71pts, 8th in Metropolitan, Missed Playoffs
2015-16: 86pts, 6th in Metropolitan, Missed Playoffs
2016-17: 87pts, 7th in Metropolitan, Missed Playoffs
2017-18: 83pts, 6th in Metropolitan, Missed Playoffs

[Lord Carnage]

Originally Posted by Yamer

From what I understand, Peters has an out clause in his contract, and GG didn't. GG wouldn't have taken if he did.

Peters doesn't necessarily want to be in Carolina, and if he takes the out then Carolina doesn't have to pay him anything. I would assume that if he is fired they have to pay his final year.

Can someone confirm?

Confirmed.

If Peters takes his out clause (I find it fascinating that he has one), then he's a free agent and can go wherever he wants, but gets paid nothing more by Carolina.

If Peters doesn't take it, and Carolina doesn't want him as coach, then can either fire him (and pay him the last year of his contract), or I guess they could move him elsewhere in the organization (and pay him the last year of his contract).

The one question I have is, if he gets fired, does Carolina still have to pay him if he gets a job somewhere else like DAL or CGY?

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler

He can't be, but I wonder how much better he is....

Agreed. I will wonder the exact same thing.

What I don't get is these posters who are convinced Peters is a horrible hire. Like what information are they going on? How many Carolina games have they watched? They are so adamant its a horrible move but it seems like they can't possibly have the information to be so adamant in their own opinion.

Bizarre.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by mrdonkey

2014-15: 71pts, 8th in Metropolitan, Missed Playoffs
2015-16: 86pts, 6th in Metropolitan, Missed Playoffs
2016-17: 87pts, 7th in Metropolitan, Missed Playoffs
2017-18: 83pts, 6th in Metropolitan, Missed Playoffs

And arguably CAR didn't have the overall talent the Flames have now. So what does that really tell us in the end? Not much right?

Can't judge a coach just on the standings without analyzing what he had to work with.

And frankly a coach should be judged on a heck of a lot more than that. Pointing to the standings shows the shallowness of anyone's argument. Coaching is a lot more than just about where a guy finished with a mediocre team.

[Yamer]

Originally Posted by Lord Carnage

Confirmed.

If Peters takes his out clause (I find it fascinating that he has one), then he's a free agent and can go wherever he wants, but gets paid nothing more by Carolina.

If Peters doesn't take it, and Carolina doesn't want him as coach, then can either fire him (and pay him the last year of his contract), or I guess they could move him elsewhere in the organization (and pay him the last year of his contract).

The one question I have is, if he gets fired, does Carolina still have to pay him if he gets a job somewhere else like DAL or CGY?

That's what I wonder as well. From what I've read this situation is hyper-complicated.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

What on earth makes you think Peters is worse than GG? How could you possibly know that?

Glen Gulutzan NHL coaching record: 146-125

Bill Peters NHL coaching record: 137-138

GG got us to the playoffs with a team that finished near the bottom of the NHL a year before, Peters has never had a sniff of the playoffs in 4 years in Carolina. I am not buying the whole Carolina's roster was so bad crap either, they had some pretty good forward depth along with a good young D. I know Peters is worse than Glen Gulutzan because the records and stats say so. This is a team that absolutely cannot afford to toil in mediocrity again and so the solution is to hire a below .500 coach? It is pure stupidity, bring in an experienced coach who has had success at this level. Even if it has to be Tippett that is fine but if it is Bill f'n Peters I will save myself the anguish of watching another crap season.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Agreed. I will wonder the exact same thing.

What I don't get is these posters who are convinced Peters is a horrible hire. Like what information are they going on? How many Carolina games have they watched? They are so adamant its a horrible move but it seems like they can't possibly have the information to be so adamant in their own opinion.

Bizarre.

I think you can think it is horrible because Tre can approach anyone. Sky is the limit

This guy has 4 crap NHL seasons

Why are you really surprised?

There is a lot of extrapolation, hand waving and hope with this guy, rather than some shiny beautiful success to look at.

[Lord Carnage]

Originally Posted by Yamer

That's what I wonder as well. From what I've read this situation is hyper-complicated.

Not only that, but here's my other question. Peters is still under contract with Carolina, though he has an out.

Where does it say he's allowed to talk to other teams BEFORE deciding whether to take the out or not? Seems like tampering to me...

[FlamesFanTrev]

Originally Posted by Lord Carnage

Confirmed.

If Peters takes his out clause (I find it fascinating that he has one), then he's a free agent and can go wherever he wants, but gets paid nothing more by Carolina.

If Peters doesn't take it, and Carolina doesn't want him as coach, then can either fire him (and pay him the last year of his contract), or I guess they could move him elsewhere in the organization (and pay him the last year of his contract).

The one question I have is, if he gets fired, does Carolina still have to pay him if he gets a job somewhere else like DAL or CGY?

I seems to think that torts was collecting 3 coaching cheques at or point. I imagine it depends on the contract the team and the coach sign

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

And arguably CAR didn't have the overall talent the Flames have now. So what does that really tell us in the end? Not much right?

Can't judge a coach just on the standings without analyzing what he had to work with.

And frankly a coach should be judged on a heck of a lot more than that. Pointing to the standings shows the shallowness of anyone's argument. Coaching is a lot more than just about where a guy finished with a mediocre team.

Except those teams were not mediocre. I could strongly argue that Carolina's lineup last year was better than ours depth wise. Not even close really.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Glen Gulutzan NHL coaching record: 146-125

Bill Peters NHL coaching record: 137-138

GG got us to the playoffs with a team that finished near the bottom of the NHL a year before, Peters has never had a sniff of the playoffs in 4 years in Carolina. I am not buying the whole Carolina's roster was so bad crap either, they had some pretty good forward depth along with a good young D. I know Peters is worse than Glen Gulutzan because the records and stats say so. This is a team that absolutely cannot afford to toil in mediocrity again and so the solution is to hire a below .500 coach? It is pure stupidity, bring in an experienced coach who has had success at this level. Even if it has to be Tippett that is fine but if it is Bill f'n Peters I will save myself the anguish of watching another crap season.

Well if you're so convinced just from the looking at the standings I guess you must be right.

ROFL

There can't be anything more to coaching than the standings right?

[sureLoss]

Originally Posted by Lord Carnage

\
The one question I have is, if he gets fired, does Carolina still have to pay him if he gets a job somewhere else like DAL or CGY?

If he gets fired and then hired by another team, Carolina needs to pay the difference in salary if his new salary was less than what the Canes were paying him for however long he still has on his contract.

At least that is the standard in the NHL. Not sure if they have added additional clauses to his contract or if they withhold permission to talk to other teams unless he waives.