[POLL] Calgary Flames coaching change mega-thread—with poll

[Poison]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

When did "today's game" begin, exactly?

When speed became much more important than size and toughness.

[dammage79]

Have we hired a coach yet? No? Dang.

[zamler]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

When did "today's game" begin, exactly?

The day Sutter was let go.

[Red]

Originally Posted by Poison

When speed became much more important than size and toughness.

Speed can be neutered with smart coaching. Of course we are not used to seeing it because we had a coach that choached for today's game.

In all seriousness, I am sure Sutter can figure out what game this team needs to play. He has a history of figuring those things out with other teams.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by resolute 14

when did "today's game" begin, exactly?

5:00

[Machiavelli]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

When did "today's game" begin, exactly?

When McDavid was conceived

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by Red

Speed can be neutered with smart coaching. Of course we are not used to seeing it because we had a coach that choached for today's game.

In all seriousness, I am sure Sutter can figure out what game this team needs to play. He has a history of figuring those things out with other teams.

The "in" thing changes every 4-5 years. The really great coaches are the ones that can adapt to change and continue to win whatever the fashion. I think Sutter has already shown that he can do that.

[Split98]

I want the coach that will watch Johnny play on the right wing and think to solve the 1st line RW problem with trying Johnny there for a few games.
Tkachuk - Monahan - Gaudreau

I want the coach that looks back at footage (or listens to his players) and tries to get the good Brodie back. Try him with Giordano, Hamilton or Stone even - those all have worked.
Giordano - Brodie
Hamonic - Hamilton

I want the coach that can bring back 'to the whistle' hockey we had under Hartley. We have a lot of that roster around still, but the brand of hockey they're playing doesn't have that same attitude - which was fun to watch.

TBH, I see these as Darryl qualities - but I don't know enough about the others to know if they fit that bill. Do they?

[Calgary4LIfe]

I couldn't disagree more with the assertion that some have that the game has passed Darryl Sutter by. The same was said when he left Calgary, and boy did he get that LA team turned around in a big hurry.

The single biggest issue I see with this team, and especially contrasted to Hartley's team, is a complete lack of swagger. The opposition scores.. and they suddenly score again! 23 times, in fact. Though you can't count on the sheer number of comebacks that the Hartley team made famous, it seemed like every time this year's Gulutzan team pulled a goalie to try and get the equalizer, they allow an empty net. At the same time, how many empty net goals did this year's team score themselves?

So what does this have to do with Darryl? His teams gush swagger. They are always a confident team out on the ice. They are ready to play, and they play hard all game. This is the philosophical change that this organization desperately needed.

Ok, the next argument is "But his tactics and x's and o's are from a bygone era, and this is the new NHL! - he is a dinosaur!"

I don't buy that for one second. While Gulutzan - who was hand picked for his 'new age' possession game - kept making terrible judgment calls.

I have always disagreed with the notion that the 3M line has to be kept together. You know who should play on that 3M line? A rookie with speed who is given the task to skate hard. Tkachuk in my mind has 'graduated'. Darryl has said two things recently that already makes me believe he is more knowledgeable about the FLAMES than Gulutzan was - that Backlund's line is the best THIRD line in the league, and that in today's NHL you HAVE to transition the puck quickly.

For all the accolades that get thrown Gulutzan's way for being a modern NHL coach that takes into account possession metrics, he hasn't quite figured that one out. The 5 man zone entry system is the relic he has resurrected from the past. That was how teams played to counter the infamous trap. That was how teams would play - including the Flames in '04 - to counter the 'dead puck era'.

Modern teams play with a fast transition. I don't think it has anything to do with possession. It has to do with generating offence - better quality chances from the get-go that allow your 'PDO' (I think it is a stupid metric btw) to increase - after all, you should be expected to score more on odd-man rushes, breakaways, and other premium chances, right? As a benefit, these include things like hitting the open trailer, having the goalie move more and give up juicier rebounds rather than freeze the puck or direct the rebound.

Darryl seems to want to play defensively responsible, possession-type hockey with a quick transition, while being fricken ready to play every damn game.

Sign me up for this dinosaur. I don't care if the ownership group goes over the head of Treliving - heck, if things don't work out and they have to fire Sutter, Treliving gets an automatic pass for it, I don't care.

This is (to me) what Hartley was doing. He just had a god-awful roster (especially on defence, and especially with the injuries on defence and the goalies). You can't expect to have possession of the puck more than the other team when your team is smaller, less experienced and a heck of a lot less talented. Some will argue with me, citing things like possession metrics, but it comes full circle again - the Flames had a lot less talent, and I have always argued that your possession metrics should be a byproduct of how good your team is playing.

Coaches like Gulutzan and perhaps Peters are mucking things up with (imo, once again) by playing FOR possession. That is akin to putting the cart ahead of the horse. I don't watch Carolina play, so I can't comment, but boy do their numbers seem eerily similar to Calgary's, and they even have a drop-off in goaltending, and now everyone is saying Peters is smart but was let-down by goaltending. I don't watch them enough to comment, but that does seem a bit fishy to me. They seem to have a solid defensive group there. They seem to have decent goaltending personnel. I think there is more going on there than simply being let down by goaltending.

The thing I like most about AV is that he utilizes set-plays a heck of a lot. That is the biggest thing I have always noticed about his teams. The Flames have the talent to do that here.

I just think that Darryl is at another level, and he is, in my opinion, a very 'modern' coach with an actual track record.

[Igottago]

I recall some media people almost snickering when Darryl was hired by the Kings, implying similar garbage about his handle on the (then) current game. He goes on to make his detractors look stupid and wins 2 cups because he's one of the smartest people you can put behind a bench. It's pretty foolish to bet against the guy.

[howard_the_duck]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

I couldn't disagree more with the assertion that some have that the game has passed Darryl Sutter by. The same was said when he left Calgary, and boy did he get that LA team turned around in a big hurry.

The single biggest issue I see with this team, and especially contrasted to Hartley's team, is a complete lack of swagger. The opposition scores.. and they suddenly score again! 23 times, in fact. Though you can't count on the sheer number of comebacks that the Hartley team made famous, it seemed like every time this year's Gulutzan team pulled a goalie to try and get the equalizer, they allow an empty net. At the same time, how many empty net goals did this year's team score themselves?

So what does this have to do with Darryl? His teams gush swagger. They are always a confident team out on the ice. They are ready to play, and they play hard all game. This is the philosophical change that this organization desperately needed.

Ok, the next argument is "But his tactics and x's and o's are from a bygone era, and this is the new NHL! - he is a dinosaur!"

I don't buy that for one second. While Gulutzan - who was hand picked for his 'new age' possession game - kept making terrible judgment calls.

I have always disagreed with the notion that the 3M line has to be kept together. You know who should play on that 3M line? A rookie with speed who is given the task to skate hard. Tkachuk in my mind has 'graduated'. Darryl has said two things recently that already makes me believe he is more knowledgeable about the FLAMES than Gulutzan was - that Backlund's line is the best THIRD line in the league, and that in today's NHL you HAVE to transition the puck quickly.

For all the accolades that get thrown Gulutzan's way for being a modern NHL coach that takes into account possession metrics, he hasn't quite figured that one out. The 5 man zone entry system is the relic he has resurrected from the past. That was how teams played to counter the infamous trap. That was how teams would play - including the Flames in '04 - to counter the 'dead puck era'.

Modern teams play with a fast transition. I don't think it has anything to do with possession. It has to do with generating offence - better quality chances from the get-go that allow your 'PDO' (I think it is a stupid metric btw) to increase - after all, you should be expected to score more on odd-man rushes, breakaways, and other premium chances, right? As a benefit, these include things like hitting the open trailer, having the goalie move more and give up juicier rebounds rather than freeze the puck or direct the rebound.

Darryl seems to want to play defensively responsible, possession-type hockey with a quick transition, while being fricken ready to play every damn game.

Sign me up for this dinosaur. I don't care if the ownership group goes over the head of Treliving - heck, if things don't work out and they have to fire Sutter, Treliving gets an automatic pass for it, I don't care.

This is (to me) what Hartley was doing. He just had a god-awful roster (especially on defence, and especially with the injuries on defence and the goalies). You can't expect to have possession of the puck more than the other team when your team is smaller, less experienced and a heck of a lot less talented. Some will argue with me, citing things like possession metrics, but it comes full circle again - the Flames had a lot less talent, and I have always argued that your possession metrics should be a byproduct of how good your team is playing.

Coaches like Gulutzan and perhaps Peters are mucking things up with (imo, once again) by playing FOR possession. That is akin to putting the cart ahead of the horse. I don't watch Carolina play, so I can't comment, but boy do their numbers seem eerily similar to Calgary's, and they even have a drop-off in goaltending, and now everyone is saying Peters is smart but was let-down by goaltending. I don't watch them enough to comment, but that does seem a bit fishy to me. They seem to have a solid defensive group there. They seem to have decent goaltending personnel. I think there is more going on there than simply being let down by goaltending.

The thing I like most about AV is that he utilizes set-plays a heck of a lot. That is the biggest thing I have always noticed about his teams. The Flames have the talent to do that here.

I just think that Darryl is at another level, and he is, in my opinion, a very 'modern' coach with an actual track record.

Fantastic summary.

[GioforPM]

I don't agree with all the data points in C4Life's long post, but his conclusion is correct. I will add that Sutter is a smart, modern coach. I also think GG's system was fine - he just couldn't get the team to execute it fast enough or effectively enough. Maybe that's communication, maybe it's motivation. Sutter is good at both.

[midniteowl]

Originally Posted by Igottago

I recall some media people almost snickering when Darryl was hired by the Kings, implying similar garbage about his handle on the (then) current game. He goes on to make his detractors look stupid and wins 2 cups because he's one of the smartest people you can put behind a bench. It's pretty foolish to bet against the guy.

Exactly! How many times people had said that the game has passed D Sutter by? And how many times has he proven people wrong? No, scratch that, he not only proven those so call experts wrong, he made them show their true selves, the idiots that they are.

I want my team to have that Sutter swagger back.

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

3 of the voters are known Flames haters.

The others are probably trolls are trying to be funny.

Ha. Ha.

Why was Eakins even part of the poll?

[getbak]

Originally Posted by Igottago

I recall some media people almost snickering when Darryl was hired by the Kings, implying similar garbage about his handle on the (then) current game. He goes on to make his detractors look stupid and wins 2 cups because he's one of the smartest people you can put behind a bench. It's pretty foolish to bet against the guy.

Bruce Dowbiggin literally called him a disease (malaria, I believe) that wouldn't go away.

[CroFlames]

I wish that the 773 voters actually shared their opinions on here instead of voting and disappearing.

[The Fonz]

Originally Posted by Poison

When speed became much more important than size and toughness.

The Chicago Blackhawks changed the game to speed and skill nearly 10 years ago, and won cups in 2010, 2013, and 2015.

Sutter's Kings won 2 cups in that period, in 2012 and 2014. Don't tell me he can't coach in today's fast-paced league.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Poison

When speed became much more important than size and toughness.

That's not an answer.

When did "today's game" begin?

[zamler]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

Why was Eakins even part of the poll?

Troll magnet.

[Gaskal]

"So Darryl, what do you think of the performance from the 3M line tonight?"

"Uh... who... who were they again"

"Tkachuk, Backlund, Frolik..."

"Oh, them. Yeah. They were good."

/Sutterism