[POLL] Calgary Flames coaching change mega-thread—with poll

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

My biggest takeaway is that the higher scoring teams take a lot of shots from that wierd angle between the hash marks and the goal line. I think that might be the key to generating movement in the opponent's defense, or perhaps it's a result of royal road crossing plays. Or it's just random chance and hockey is just a glorified game of roulette on ice.

Hmm to me that screams that those teams are good at generating those passes/plays across the "royal road" that get the goalie moving and don't allow him to set.

Good article on it here.

https://www.omha.net/news_article/sh...never-heard-of

PASSES ACROSS THE ROYAL ROAD – 22%
The most effective way to create offence in the NHL is a pass across the Royal Road. This is judged as any pass that goes across that line below the tops of the circles that results in a shot on goal. It accounts for 22% of all goals that Valiquette has reviewed. My shot quality research confirms this study as players shoot 30% on average on a pass across the Royal Road vs. the typical 8.5%. This type of movement is essential to goal creation because when the puck moves laterally with speed in this manner, it doesn’t allow the goaltender to remain square because they struggle to set their depth and angle, making the save more difficult.

This is on the PP - but really it's this pass.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by zamler

And maybe there is some truth, maybe not. If Tre does another unconventional coaching pick and that turns out poorly then one could characterize his decisions as such. Notice the vast majority of people do want a coach with a winning record not a diamond in the rough type hire?...

I will say this again: this characterization of candidates as "unconventional" v. "conventional" is being applied in this instance entirely by fans, and I would expect the GM to be making this decision much differently than any of us fans. Given that he is the GM, given the resources at his disposal, and given his access to varying expert opinions that none of us has, it seems pretty fair to rightly call Treliving "the smartest guy in the room" that is full of hockey fans, and not in a disparaging manner.

[rollie619]

Has Willie D been mentioned not saying he's the best fit, but a better pedigree than Peters I'd say.

[dammage79]

Its also a good reason to move Johnny to the RW on the PP. More passing angles to work with along with better shot selections to generate rebounds.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by rollie619

Has Willie D been mentioned not saying he's the best fit, but a better pedigree than Peters I'd say.

Ew, his canucks teams were as lost as Gullys flames team. Let's leave the Torts disciples alone.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Itse

Do you realize that this is conspiracy theory logic?

"I can't prove this is real, and the people who can prove it's real are never going to do publicly, but trust me this is still a real thing".

I'm not saying you're wrong (although I've made my stand clear on this), but it's just not a very convincing thing to say.

No it's not!

I simply don't have time to do it.

A conspiracy theorist believes only one thing can be true, but then has no proof to back it up.

I've been frank in that I don't know what the answer will be but the work should be done.

[Teh_Bandwagoner]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

My pick would be Ralph Krueger

It was the first name I was looking for on the poll. Was surprised he wasn't on the list.

[Scary Eloranta]

Anyone who thinks Darryl should be our coach again should read this:

https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/drew-doughty-los-angeles-kings-challenging-offseason/

Big, heavy hockey is dead (not that the Flames could ever play like that anyway).

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

So, anyone who doesn't think like you is "hilariously simplistic"?

It is hilarious simplistic to draw conclusions from each candidate's coaching record without the benefit of interviews and analyses. This is fine for fans, but I expect an NHL GM to perform a hell of a lot more due dilignece in making his coaching hire.

Beyond that annoying self-indulgence, I find your comment interesting. You are clearly putting up an appearance of speaking from a position of greater understanding. Would you care to inform the rest of us plebs who the illuminaries are that Treliving is likely listening to? Further, would you care to explain why you believe none of these three options are names that the people Treliving does listen to are likely to have been brought up as capable candidates by same? And, can you explain why, if these are not names at least brought forward for consideration, that Treliving should even be listening to these people in the first place?

This is not my intention at all. I am only suggesting that we don't really have a good idea as to who the GM and his advisors consider to be the top candidates for the Flames head coaching job. In this vacuum of information it seems pretty presumptuous to think that Treliving's shortlist should look anything like ours.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Hmm to me that screams that those teams are good at generating those passes/plays across the "royal road" that get the goalie moving and don't allow him to set.

Good article on it here.

https://www.omha.net/news_article/sh...never-heard-of



This is on the PP - but really it's this pass.

That shot is almost exactly the angle I was referring to. Our shot charts under Gulutzan don't seem to have much of that.

[Otto-matic]

Originally Posted by Teh_Bandwagoner

It was the first name I was looking for on the poll. Was surprised he wasn't on the list.

Sounds like he has a cushy job at Southampton. Would take one hell of an offer to get him to Calgary.

[tkflames]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Ew, his canucks teams were as lost as Gullys flames team. Let's leave the Torts disciples alone.

Agreed....if we go that route we should change it up to Babcock deciples. At least they can trace their lineage to Scotty Bowman.

Unrelated, but a thought that entered my mind a few days ago. After reading "Behind the Bench", there is a Torts/Burke connection via USA Hockey. Hockey is a small world, but I can't help but wonder if this played a role in the GG hiring.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Otto-matic

Sounds like he has a cushy job at Southampton. Would take one hell of an offer to get him to Calgary.

Yeah, I imagine he is making way more money over there then he would coaching the Flames.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by Drunk Uncle

Thinking that management looks at how a coach coaches (systems, philosophy) to assess a fit with your team prior to hiring a coach is not the same thing as telling the coach how to coach once you've hired him. Not sure how you are seeing those as the same.

It's not exactly the same thing, but it's still pretty much the same thing.

If your process of deciding who's a fit starts with you determining which system fits your team, then no question, you think you're qualified to make that decision and you're making at least preliminary call on the issue.

If you don't think you're qualified, then you don't make that a part of your process.

I also don't realistically see someone deciding which system would fit their team and then be okay if the guy they hire to do that starts doing something completely different.

I also think you're likely to lose out on the best coach available, just like you're likely to miss out on the best player available at the draft if you draft for "organization needs". Most likely "the best player available" just "wasn't the right fit at that time".

[midniteowl]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Ew, his canucks teams were as lost as Gullys flames team. Let's leave the Torts disciples alone.

And Team Canada in the last Olympics, no, no and no to Desjardins.

[tkflames]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Hmm to me that screams that those teams are good at generating those passes/plays across the "royal road" that get the goalie moving and don't allow him to set.

Good article on it here.

https://www.omha.net/news_article/sh...never-heard-of



This is on the PP - but really it's this pass.

You already surpassed DC in terms of PP strategy...

[mrdonkey]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

It is hilarious simplistic to draw conclusions from each candidate's coaching record without the benefit of interviews and analyses. This is fine for fans, but I expect an NHL GM to perform a hell of a lot more due dilignece in making his coaching hire.


This is not my intention at all. I am only suggesting that we don't really have a good idea as to who the GM and his advisors consider to be the top candidates for the Flames head coaching job. In this vacuum of information it seems pretty presumptuous to think that Treliving's shortlist should look anything like ours.

Your stance sure sounds a lot like appealing to authority. Seems like a dangerous game to play when having all these resources you put so much faith in have brought us such wisdom as the Brouwer and Raymond signings, Brandon Bollig, waiving Byron, hiring Gulutzan, etc. Treliving has made plenty of mistakes that many people here criticized and which turned out exactly as anticipated.

Sometimes conventional wisdom is conventional for a reason. I don't see a whole lot of evidence in Treliving's corner to suggest he has some higher plane of understanding that reveals Bill Peters is the best coach available. Literally the only reason I can see for hiring this man is that better coaches were not interested.

[dash_pinched]

Just to be clear, no I don't want to see Willie D as the next head coach of the Calgary Flames (and I don't think he is being considered), but his resume is certainly more polished than GG's.

[howard_the_duck]

Originally Posted by Locke

Really?

I dont see that. You could see the underlying issues.

You know how people always say that getting rid of the coach is the easy answer? Its easier to get rid of 1 guy than to change your entire roster?

Yet we acquired new defencemen, jettisoned both goaltenders and replaced them, ironically with goaltenders who played better, brought up new forwards and yet achieved worse results.

You blame the goalie for the Anaheim series? I blame the guy that didnt see that the goalie was the problem until it was too late.

There's no way Gully would have been fired after last year. One year after they fired Hartley, got them back in the playoffs, and the players seemingly bought into his system. BT would have been eaten alive if he'd done that 1 year removed from firing Hartley. He'd have shifted the spotlight squarely on his shoulders.

I don't think you'd find a single hockey person that would have done differently heading into the season. Last year didn't warrant firing Gully. This year did.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by mrdonkey

Your stance sure sounds a lot like appealing to authority. Seems like a dangerous game to play when having all these resources you put so much faith in have brought us such wisdom as the Brouwer and Raymond signings, Brandon Bollig, waiving Byron, hiring Gulutzan, etc. Treliving has made plenty of mistakes that many people here criticized and which turned out exactly as anticipated.

You are damn right it is. I am absolutely certain that Brad Treliving is better at this than any one of us nameless/faceless internet critics. And for the record, it is NEVER a bad idea to set a higher level of confidence in the opinion of experts.

Sometimes conventional wisdom is conventional for a reason.

So, what is the conventional wisdom among hockey executives about who will be the next best coaching hire, and how do you know it? Do they think exactly the same way as fans do about this?

I don't see a whole lot of evidence in Treliving's corner to suggest he has some higher plane of understanding that reveals Bill Peters is the best coach available.

Of course you don't. The reason for that is that you do not have all the available information, and most likely you are also not nearly as well versed on the various criteria for getting the most out of this group of players. I am certain that Treliving has a better handle on these things than you do.