Treliving needs to start feeling the heat

[Lanny_McDonald]

I can see why Treliving likes Gulutzan. Both like to think they are Uber smart, but both have mediocre results to show for their brilliant work. Both are slow to react and make decisions that could positively affect outcomes. Both grossly over value what they perceive to be the process. Frankly, because Treliving couldn’t make a decision immediately at the end of the last game, he shows he’s incapable of making the hard decisions or admitting his own errors. This has gotten out of hand. Time to ####can Treliving too.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by New Era

I can see why Treliving likes Gulutzan. Both like to think they are Uber smart, but both have mediocre results to show for their brilliant work. Both are slow to react and make decisions that could positively affect outcomes. Both grossly over value what they perceive to be the process. Frankly, because Treliving couldn’t make a decision immediately at the end of the last game, he shows he’s incapable of making the hard decisions or admitting his own errors. This has gotten out of hand. Time to ####can Treliving too.

Holy crow
I think what changed is the horrific crash and they are putting some distance between that and firing their coach.
Although I also wouldn't have a problem if Tre wanted a bit of time between end of season and making the decision, to make sure he was making the right decision and not an emotional one.

The fact he hasn't fired his coach mere days after end of season doesn't justify canning him.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

The fact he hasn't fired his coach mere days after end of season doesn't justify canning him.

Maybe not, but the terrible results and trajectory of the team do. Couple it with his inability to act, that’s enough to get fired in any other business on the planet.

[scotty2hotty]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

, to make sure he was making the right decision and not an emotional one.

See, this is the issue I have.

He's had 2 years to evaluate Gulutzan. He's watched this ship sink steadily for almost half a season.

I like Treliving - but if he has waited until the very last game of the season to evaluate, and is now so overcome with emotion that he cannot do just that - then he's not the right person for the job. IMO.

An announcement needs to be made, one way or the other, by the end of today.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by New Era

Maybe not, but the terrible results and trajectory of the team do. Couple it with his inability to act, that’s enough to get fired in any other business on the planet.

Inability to act is you editorializing.
But yes let's do what we always do. Fire upper management and rinse and repeat. It's worked so far for the last 2 decades!

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by scotty2hotty

See, this is the issue I have.

He's had 2 years to evaluate Gulutzan. He's watched this ship sink steadily for almost half a season.

I like Treliving - but if he has waited until the very last game of the season to evaluate, and is now so overcome with emotion that he cannot do just that - then he's not the right person for the job. IMO.

An announcement needs to be made, one way or the other, by the end of today.

You are completely misrepresenting the meaning of emotional in the previous post. I'm sure Treliving has been evaluating constantly. I also sure he wants to take a bit of time to assemble all the data, including exit interviews with players and coaches. This informs not only the decision to fire, but who to hire assuming that GG is gone.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Inability to act is you editorializing.
But yes let's do what we always do. Fire upper management and rinse and repeat. It's worked so far for the last 2 decades!

Editorializing? Right. The Flames’ season has been over for pretty much a month now. How much time does it take to make an obvious decision?

[Scroopy Noopers]

Pretty happy we have a GM that actually thinks things through instead of making knee jerk reactions. Some of these comments are crazy. Nothing has been decided yet and doesn’t need to be.

[scotty2hotty]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

You are completely misrepresenting the meaning of emotional in the previous post. I'm sure Treliving has been evaluating constantly. I also sure he wants to take a bit of time to assemble all the data, including exit interviews with players and coaches. This informs not only the decision to fire, but who to hire assuming that GG is gone.

That's fine. Makes sense to me.

I don't think I was misrepresenting the meaning of emotional at all. There was an insinuation that any near term decisions would be emotional ones. I disagreed.

A decision could be made in the near term that is based on objective measures.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by scotty2hotty

That's fine. Makes sense to me.

I don't think I was misrepresenting the meaning of emotional at all. There was an insinuation that any near term decisions would be emotional ones. I disagreed.

A decision could be made in the near term that is based on objective measures.

"Overcome with emotion" connotes something different than what I think JH meant.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Inability to act is you editorializing.
But yes let's do what we always do. Fire upper management and rinse and repeat. It's worked so far for the last 2 decades!

I think this is something that needs to be addressed because it's often taken backwards.

Bad teams aren't bad because they fire people too often. Bad teams are bad because their decision making process makes them hire bad people in the first place.

You don't just stay with someone because you need to "stop the insanity" of turnover. Turnover stops when your philosophy changes and you hire quality people. It will happen here when the Flames accept that their way of doing things is wholly ineffective.

I'm not saying Treliving should be fired now, but if the time comes, you don't keep him for the sake of stability. You don't hope the mediocrity goes away because of tenure and in spite of evidence and results.

[scotty2hotty]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

"Overcome with emotion" connotes something different than what I think JH meant.

Fair enough. I think you're nitpicking quotes though. I was definitely exaggerating the situation in a mocking manner. The point still stands, however.

The insinuation was made that BT needs time to make an objective decision rather than an emotional one.

My point is only that an objective decision could have been made 5 minutes after the final whistle of the season.

[Badgers Nose]

It’s a commendable not to want to fire people. When you hire them you fee you got the best ones and you put everything you have into helping them be successful because their success is yours too.

Every once in a while you hire a dud. Sometimes worse than a dud; someone that can harm the business. The insanity is letting them stick around.

The past is irrelevant in the decision about the current guy, other than the fact we hired bad again. Unless you only care about optics and not results.

Any good coach or GM candidate would believe in their ability to outperform these guys. Just as BT and GG did when they were hired. The fact the previous guys were fired should not be a huge concern. It’s the way change happens most the time in the nhl.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Bad teams are bad because the keep bringing in bad people in key positions.

I like Treliving and I think he has brought in the right mix of players. Sure, we’re short one or two forwards, but nothing major. The problem is his choice of coaches. If he can’t make a decision on that, and identify the right guy, then he needs to too. Certain coaches take teams only so far, we’ll certain managers only take teams so far as well.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by New Era

Bad teams are bad because the keep bringing in bad people in key positions.

I like Treliving and I think he has brought in the right mix of players. Sure, we’re short one or two forwards, but nothing major. The problem is his choice of coaches. If he can’t make a decision on that, and identify the right guy, then he needs to too. Certain coaches take teams only so far, we’ll certain managers only take teams so far as well.

'Bad people'

Question; have you ever met Glen Gulutzan? Ever talked to him about coaching hockey?

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by TOfan

'Bad people'

Question; have you ever met Glen Gulutzan? Ever talked to him about coaching hockey?

I don't agree with the verbage either, but you know what he means.

Call it 'poor fit', call it 'inexperienced', call it 'cutting your teeth in the NHL', all it whatever you like. Gulutzan is a coach that didn't get results in two NHL stops now.

Don Hay and Greg Gilbert could talk to most people on here and make them feel like idiots when it comes to coaching, but that doesn't mean it translates to on ice success.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by TOfan

'Bad people'

Question; have you ever met Glen Gulutzan? Ever talked to him about coaching hockey?

I'm just here to take bad people out of the context that it was clearly meant and get offended by it.

[kukkudo]

Originally Posted by TOfan

'Bad people'

Question; have you ever met Glen Gulutzan? Ever talked to him about coaching hockey?

He didn't mean it that way. And nothing to talk about his coaching record speaks for itself.

[Royle9]

Originally Posted by TOfan

'Bad people'

Question; have you ever met Glen Gulutzan? Ever talked to him about coaching hockey?

What does meeting someone in person, or talking to him on a personal level have to do with one's subjective view of their coaching style?

His coaching speaks for itself based on the results its generated over the 2 years as Flames head coach and coupled with the multiple assistant gig's he's had over his tenure in the NHL.

All this post does is provide further evidence that each individual is different and there's no changing that, we've got a large group who want Glen gone based on the results thus far during his time in Calgary and a group of people who will do whatever it takes to justify why he should stay. Nothing will change that.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by New Era

Editorializing? Right. The Flames’ season has been over for pretty much a month now. How much time does it take to make an obvious decision?

It ended 6 days ago.