Conservative Leadership Debate: Who's the Next Premier of Alberta? - Page 7 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

moon · 12-03-2006, 12:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FireFly

Inject credibility and support? Absolutely. Win an election? Doubtful. Stelmach would have to seriously screw up for Morton to come in from another party to take it from him.

I doubt even with Manning the AA is going to win the next election. Morton would provide them with support in the southern part of the province and in some other constituencies in central alberta as well. Depending on what happens with Dinning and how Stelmach is able to get the Calgary vote to him could mean a much lower seat total for the Conservatives and a chance for the AA to gain seats and become a real political force in the province rather than the one member party that they are now. Once that happens the possibility to get more high visible/powerful support for the next election increases. Almost like how Manning laid the steps for Harper to take the Reform/CA/Conservatives to power.

Morton probably will not lead the AA to power in Alberta but if he is able to lead them to 5-10 seats thats a better position than they are in now and could even make them the official opposition.

FireFly · 12-03-2006, 12:57 AM

Dinning 51282
Morton 41243
Stelmach 51754

Final results after first count.

Julio · 12-03-2006, 01:00 AM

Wow...Ed's riding must have been the last to report!

FireFly · 12-03-2006, 01:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moon

I doubt even with Manning the AA is going to win the next election. Morton would provide them with support in the southern part of the province and in some other constituencies in central alberta as well. Depending on what happens with Dinning and how Stelmach is able to get the Calgary vote to him could mean a much lower seat total for the Conservatives and a chance for the AA to gain seats and become a real political force in the province rather than the one member party that they are now. Once that happens the possibility to get more high visible/powerful support for the next election increases. Almost like how Manning laid the steps for Harper to take the Reform/CA/Conservatives to power.

Morton probably will not lead the AA to power in Alberta but if he is able to lead them to 5-10 seats thats a better position than they are in now and could even make them the official opposition.

For sure he can win them 5-10 seats, but I don't think it'll be a one election turnover anyways. It'll at least be two. However, the party needs to prepare for that second election. It needs to be ready for a changing of the guard. If Morton wins them 10 seats in the next election, he WILL be the leader going into the election after that. Will he be able to win that election? A lot of this will be based on what happens at the federal level over the next few years as well.

FireFly · 12-03-2006, 01:08 AM

Every single Morton supporter... EVERY SINGLE Morton supporter put their second choice to Stelmach.

Your new Premier with over 77,000 votes is Ed Stelmach. (I assume the rest didn't have a second choice?)

J pold · 12-03-2006, 01:11 AM

Ed Stelmach!
I know nothing about politics but they cut into SNL for this guy so I already don’t like him

moon · 12-03-2006, 01:11 AM

Well thats it, Stelmach wins.

A horrible result. Hopefully, Alberta can stay to its history and make the transition to a new right wing party in one swift elections.

We go from a great leader to this chump? Embarassing.

rockstar · 12-03-2006, 01:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moon

Well thats it, Stelmach wins.

A horrible result. Hopefully, Alberta can stay to its history and make the transition to a new right wing party in one swift elections.

We go from a great leader to this chump? Embarassing.

Care to elaborate? What's so bad about him? And be unbiased, if you could.

Reggie Dunlop · 12-03-2006, 01:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moon

I think that after the high profile that he gained in this leadership race that Morton definatly could inject some credibility and support to the AA.

Frick, don't make me laugh. Morton would be wise to steer the hell clear of that conglomeration of flea-bitten, polyester-clad, Vitalis-coifed, rag-tag collection of small-town overthinkers. The man is a god damn academic (which brings up another point -- a hard-right capitalist sinecured within the burrowed walls of ivory towers for his adult life). What the hell would he want with them? There's fringe, and then there's just plain hopeless causes.

moon · 12-03-2006, 01:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J pold

Ed Stelmach!
I know nothing about politics but they cut into SNL for this guy so I already don’t like him

Over the next few months he may not do too much more to make you hate him, because he really doesn't do anything, but remember this feeling as he is bumbling around doing nothing because it is the right feeling on this guy.

At the First ministers meetings is he going to hope that Ontario and Quebec will fight over issues so that Alberta's views ending up winning out?

Does he hope that in the upcoming election the Liberals and AA will fight between each other so much that the PC's will pick up votes from supporters worried the other guy might win?

Maybe Lyle Oberg can give him some advice he is a real strong political mind.

moon · 12-03-2006, 01:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockstar

Care to elaborate? What's so bad about him? And be unbiased, if you could.

He really isn't that bad at all, but he isn't that good either.

He wins the election because Morton voters do want Dinning, Dinning voters don't want Morton and the other voters don't want either and would vote for a goat if it was running against both guys.

To me he seems to have "slipped" in not because of support for him or his ideas but becasue of opposition to the others and after years of Ralph who was a strong, charismatic leader that was a big player not only on a local level but nationally as well to go to Stelmach seems like a big step down.

Maybe as a leader he will act much different than he did during the election.

Plus the supporters he has aren't exactly the "top" guys in the party in my view as well which didn't help his cause. I may not like everyone in Dinnings "group" but at least their are some guys their that I can respect. Not so with Stelmach.

FireFly · 12-03-2006, 01:21 AM

Well, apparently the results are not what the announcer guy said at the podium in Edmonton because Dinning got 4227 second choice votes.

rockstar · 12-03-2006, 01:23 AM

So in terms of groups then, it's basically "anybody but Dinning" + "anybody but Morton" = Stelmach wins.

Interesting. Doesn't seem like a great way to select a new leader.

moon · 12-03-2006, 01:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reggie Dunlop

Frick, don't make me laugh. Morton would be wise to steer the hell clear of that conglomeration of flea-bitten, polyester-clad, Vitalis-coifed, rag-tag collection of small-town overthinkers. The man is a god damn academic (which brings up another point -- a hard-right capitalist sinecured within the burrowed walls of ivory towers for his adult life). What the hell would he want with them? There's fringe, and then there's just plain hopeless causes.

Best alternative out there right now. I think that part of the reason the party is the way it is is because they do not have the a legitimate leader like Morton there. Plus there has not been a need for people to look to a right wing party other than the PC's with Ralph in charge. Depending on what Stelmach does policy-wise, I could see more legitimate support moving to that party and the policies/people involved becoming "Less fringe and lost cause" and more legitimate political force.

Of course the party is not nearly as bad of as you make it out to be either.

FireFly · 12-03-2006, 01:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockstar

So in terms of groups then, it's basically "anybody but Dinning" + "anybody but Morton" = Stelmach wins.

Interesting. Doesn't seem like a great way to select a new leader.

Well, to be honest though, he was in the lead after the first choices were counted. So he would've won the second round anyways.

Natt · 12-03-2006, 01:34 AM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Morton

Ted Morton scares the crap out of me. Replacing the RCMP and getting Alberta's own police force?

Refusing same sex marriage?

All about promoting Alberta over Ottawa?

I say Dinning. Because I have been keeping up with his platform, and I agree with more of his than any other of the candidates.

And then this is the same guy that thinks Quebec doesn't deserve any special treatment. Makes no sense to me.

Rockin' Flames · 12-03-2006, 01:35 AM

I'm thinking that Morton will need a pretty good cabinet position in Stelmachs cabinet to even start on healing this party now. This may at least help to stem some of the bleed off of support, from the Morton camp, for this party anyways.

Rockin' Flames · 12-03-2006, 01:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Natt

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Morton

Ted Morton scares the crap out of me. Replacing the RCMP and getting Alberta's own police force?

Refusing same sex marriage?

All about promoting Alberta over Ottawa?

I say Dinning. Because I have been keeping up with his platform, and I agree with more of his than any other of the candidates.

And then this is the same guy that thinks Quebec doesn't deserve any special treatment. Makes no sense to me.

Well first of all it's too late because Dinning is out and Stelmach is in.

Second of all why is Alberta having its own police force so scary considering Ontario already has it's own police force.

Thirdly, this refusal of same sex marriage does not mean that same sex people wouldn't be able to get married in the province

Finally, what is wrong with promoting Alberta over Ottawa (after all Quebec seems to do a pretty good job at this and yet I don't hear people calling them scary).

Reggie Dunlop · 12-03-2006, 01:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moon

Best alternative out there right now. I think that part of the reason the party is the way it is is because they do not have the a legitimate leader like Morton there. Plus there has not been a need for people to look to a right wing party other than the PC's with Ralph in charge. Depending on what Stelmach does policy-wise, I could see more legitimate support moving to that party and the policies/people involved becoming "Less fringe and lost cause" and more legitimate political force.

Of course the party is not nearly as bad of as you make it out to be either.

Think so?

Doctrinaire thinking never wins the day in a pluralistic society. That went out of fashion when William Aberhart croaked and Manning The First took over.

Alberta has a fine history of Fringe Parties. Probably holds the lead in that department.

Myself, can't really get behind Stelmach because he's pretty much going to be just the same as the last batch of ass holes, but hey, he was a comprimise candidate, and at the end of the day that's a pretty good start.

Meh. He's the New Guy.

JiriHrdina · 12-03-2006, 02:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moon

He really isn't that bad at all, but he isn't that good either.

He wins the election because Morton voters do want Dinning, Dinning voters don't want Morton and the other voters don't want either and would vote for a goat if it was running against both guys.

But more people selected Stelmach as their first choice than either Morton or Dinning...so that statement simply isn't true.