Francis with Kerr: Who is going?

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

The assumption was that they couldn't win with those guys. LA won with those guys. So the assumption was wrong.

Pretty straight-forward.

Yeah, that’s not how that works. Nice try though.

Philly didn’t win with them, Philly didn’t win without them. That doesn’t make Jiri’s assumption wrong.

[codynw]

Originally Posted by zamler

Why do I get the eerie feeling some of the talk here is to soften up the fans so they'll accept GG being back next season.

If Gulutzan is behind that bench next season I'll be checked out before training camp tbh.

[iloveicedhockey]

I cant see it being anyone with 5 or more years left on their deals but perhaps I'm just being naive in thinking that players will focus on personal performance/usage as new contracts approach.

I can see it being Bennett perhaps but like all Francis pieces, it throws out the click bait but never really builds on it. I can see Bennett being extremely frustrated, not only with usage but with his own performance. The kid performed at every level but now is finding it difficult transitioning. The metric by which players contracts are judged is almost entirely points and he sees his peers getting paid and puts even more pressure on himself and tries to do too much.

I don't think the last couple years have been wasted with Sam and like someone mentioned above, I'd like to see him under a different coach/system before giving up.

Obviously Francis is with the players quite a bit but perhaps he looks but doesn't see. I'd like to call Francis's bluff but he wouldn't upset the apple cart, not to mention if he did write such an article, value of those 'bad apples' would decrease, which would annoy a few of his ownership buddies.

[Housley4Prez]

Originally Posted by iloveicedhockey

I can see it being Bennett perhaps but like all Francis pieces, it throws out the click bait but never really builds on it. I can see Bennett being extremely frustrated, not only with usage but with his own performance. The kid performed at every level but now is finding it difficult transitioning. The metric by which players contracts are judged is almost entirely points and he sees his peers getting paid and puts even more pressure on himself and tries to do too much.

I highly doubt that Bennett's character defines this team. It's gotta be a much bigger name than that.

[Badgers Nose]

Originally Posted by iloveicedhockey

I cant see it being anyone with 5 or more years left on their deals but perhaps I'm just being naive in thinking that players will focus on personal performance/usage as new contracts approach.

I can see it being Bennett perhaps but like all Francis pieces, it throws out the click bait but never really builds on it. I can see Bennett being extremely frustrated, not only with usage but with his own performance. The kid performed at every level but now is finding it difficult transitioning. The metric by which players contracts are judged is almost entirely points and he sees his peers getting paid and puts even more pressure on himself and tries to do too much.

I don't think the last couple years have been wasted with Sam and like someone mentioned above, I'd like to see him under a different coach/system before giving up.

Obviously Francis is with the players quite a bit but perhaps he looks but doesn't see. I'd like to call Francis's bluff but he wouldn't upset the apple cart, not to mention if he did write such an article, value of those 'bad apples' would decrease, which would annoy a few of his ownership buddies.

Bennett needs a change. Maybe a swap with another high pitential player is a similar circumstance would be best.

19 came in here and stole the role from Bennett. If Sam isn’t playing the role of highly skilled agitator, I’m not not sure what he has. The struggles over the last two years suggest Sam and the team don’t know what he is either.

[Moneyhands23]

I worry thats its Monahan.

Other than that if its a "big" name on the team it has to be one of the top 3 defenceman

[iloveicedhockey]

Sorry, didn't mean to suggest it was entirely Bennett. I just thought of our players he'd be one who I'd think would be concerned with points. I don't know who the others would be.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

Yeah, that’s not how that works. Nice try though.

Philly didn’t win with them, Philly didn’t win without them. That doesn’t make Jiri’s assumption wrong.

I am not going to debate you any longer on this because it's trivial, and you simply like to argue for the sake of arguing, but yes, that is how it works.

Jiri's argument, and Philly's assumption, were wrong.

Back to the thread, every team, and every situation, are different. The Flames need another top forward. The best way to acquire that, IMO, is by moving a defenseman. And IMO, the best solution is Hamilton.

[Badgers Nose]

Originally Posted by Moneyhands23

I worry thats its Monahan.

Other than that if its a "big" name on the team it has to be one of the top 3 defenceman

With all those game winning goals? Even if he is an iceberg, he gets results.

Francis is trolling. But I don’t think Kerr would let him get away with that. Maybe they are talking about something that’s well known in insider circles and which Kerr can’t say due to proximity of the Fan 960 to the team.

These media guys make crap wages and are at the mercy of the teams, so I don’t fault them that.

Francis on the other hand makes his living off trolling us.

[monkeyman]

Originally Posted by codynw

If Gulutzan is behind that bench next season I'll be checked out before training camp tbh.

If GG is back next year, this franchise deserves what it gets. I won't be angry, my feelings are more like a parent watching a child continue to make the same bad mistakes over and over again. Just disappointment and frustration.
What the Flames seem to forget is they're in the entertainment business and their product is neither successful or entertaining. It will eventually catch up to them, of course they'll come up with other excuses for declined attendance, like the building.
I'd be convinced this was their plan all along, but hell, 20+ years of suckage is a long con for a new arena and we know KK isn't that good at long term planning.

[Enoch Root]

Personally, I don't think it is any one player.

I think the problem is that there are too many guys that are passive. Any one of them, on their own, is no problem. Two or even three of them is no problem.

But having all of: Monahan, Hamilton, Backlund, Frolik, Brodie, and then also guys like Stajan and Jankowski, there just isn't enough spunk.

[Timbo]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Personally, I don't think it is any one player.

I think the problem is that there are too many guys that are passive. Any one of them, on their own, is no problem. Two or even three of them is no problem.

But having all of: Monahan, Hamilton, Backlund, Frolik, Brodie, and then also guys like Stajan and Jankowski, there just isn't enough spunk.

So then is it that our leadership core is unable or unwilling to motivate these players?

I’m fairly confident our coach is guilty of one or both of these transgressions.

[timbit]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

The assumption was that they couldn't win with those guys. LA won with those guys. So the assumption was wrong.

Pretty straight-forward.

Philadelphia made two blockbuster trades in a matter of half an hour, first sending Carter to the Columbus Blue Jackets in exchange for Jakub Voracek and the eighth pick ( Sean Couturier} in the 2011 NHL Entry Draft (Carter would later be dealt to LA before the trade deadline), and then sending captain Mike Richards to Los Angeles in exchange for power forward Wayne Simmonds and prospect Brayden Schenn.

Voracek, Couturier, Simmonds and Schenn plus a 2 nd rd pick for Richards and Carter turned out to be highway robbery for Phil .

LA was in the win now stage and Phil was rebuilding.

Pretty straight forward.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by timbit

Philadelphia made two blockbuster trades in a matter of half an hour, first sending Carter to the Columbus Blue Jackets in exchange for Jakub Voracek and the eighth pick ( Sean Couturier} in the 2011 NHL Entry Draft (Carter would later be dealt to LA before the trade deadline), and then sending captain Mike Richards to Los Angeles in exchange for power forward Wayne Simmonds and prospect Brayden Schenn.

Voracek, Couturier, Simmonds and Schenn plus a 2 nd rd pick for Richards and Carter turned out to be highway robbery for Phil .

LA was in the win now stage and Phil was rebuilding.

Pretty straight forward.

They've won one playoff round since that highway robbery, and it was the year directly after the trade.

It's been miss outright or first round exit every season since.

[The Original FFIV]

Must of touched a nerve with Flames as can’t listen to it anymore. Just me or are others having same issue?

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by Badgers Nose

With all those game winning goals? Even if he is an iceberg, he gets results.

Francis is trolling. But I don’t think Kerr would let him get away with that. Maybe they are talking about something that’s well known in insider circles and which Kerr can’t say due to proximity of the Fan 960 to the team.

These media guys make crap wages and are at the mercy of the teams, so I don’t fault them that.

Francis on the other hand makes his living off trolling us.

Kerr brought this up a while ago on an eastern road trip, well before this Francis bit. Can't remember after what game, but he did say that he had seen stuff and was saying management had to clean up the mess in the summer . He wouldn't name names but he was very ticked off about a bunch of players.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by timbit

Philadelphia made two blockbuster trades in a matter of half an hour, first sending Carter to the Columbus Blue Jackets in exchange for Jakub Voracek and the eighth pick ( Sean Couturier} in the 2011 NHL Entry Draft (Carter would later be dealt to LA before the trade deadline), and then sending captain Mike Richards to Los Angeles in exchange for power forward Wayne Simmonds and prospect Brayden Schenn.

Voracek, Couturier, Simmonds and Schenn plus a 2 nd rd pick for Richards and Carter turned out to be highway robbery for Phil .

LA was in the win now stage and Phil was rebuilding.

Pretty straight forward.

Yes I know what happened, thanks.

It's a simple set of posts. Philly thought they couldn't win with Carter and Richards. But those two won. So saying they couldn't win with them was wrong.

Jiri used that as a justification for trading Gaudreau. But the premise was wrong.

I never once said they were bad trades.

Some people clearly just like to argue. I would prefer actually reading some good ideas. Especially from you. I see you criticize other posts a lot. I would like to know what you think the team should do.

[the2bears]

Originally Posted by Housley4Prez

Oh yeah? Where was he in the playoffs against Anaheim?

When does he step up to get us a game tying goal in important games?

He was getting 4 goals in 4 games vs. Anaheim. It's like you don't even care about facts, you just hate him.

edit: Oops, somehow thought you were talking about Monahan. As others have mentioned, the game 3 tying goal was pretty significant.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Timbo

So then is it that our leadership core is unable or unwilling to motivate these players?

I’m fairly confident our coach is guilty of one or both of these transgressions.

I believe a lot starts with the coach, and that the coach, as much as anyone, defines the character of the team. But I also think the roster, as it stands, is lacking in the chutzpah category.

Again, I don't see any individual players as a problem. I just think that there are too many guys that are passive.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

Kerr brought this up a while ago on an eastern road trip, well before this Francis bit. Can't remember after what game, but he did say that he had seen stuff and was saying management had to clean up the mess in the summer . He wouldn't name names but he was very ticked off about a bunch of players.

I've heard the odd rumour about some of the players but they are all second or third hand so I haven't cared to comment about them.