Francis: Treliving filled with disappointment, anger after team's collapse

[Jiri Hrdina]

The Lack deal involved the Flames trading a 6th but getting a 7th back. I don't think that's a great illustration of your point
Shore was acquired for a 7th. Also not a great example

I think the most applicable ones are Lazar, Bollig (which was years ago now) and Stone.

I think it is true the Flames have traded a lot of picks, but for the most part it has been to get guys playing up in the lineup.

[Mike F]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Actually it is. The Flames slumped last season going into the playoffs, his Stars teams also slumped towards the end of seasons, and well the end of this season is pretty self explanatory. The records don't lie.

To add some data, in the last 15 games of each season (a number I just randomly chose before looking), Guluzan's teams have gone. . . .

11/12 - 6-9-0
12/13 - 6-8-1
16/17 - 8-7-0
17/18 - 4-10-0 with 1 game left.

[monkeyman]

For the record, BT traded picks.
Bolling for a 3rd
Hamilton for a 7th
Elliot for a 2nd and 3rd
Stone for a 3rd and a 5th
Lazar for a 2nd
Smth for a 3rd
Lack for a 6th(got a 7th)
Shore for a 7th
Hamonic 1st 2 2nds
Hamilton 1st 2 2nds

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Mike F

To add some data, in the last 15 games of each season (a number I just randomly chose before looking), Guluzan's teams have gone. . . .

11/12 - 6-9-0
12/13 - 6-8-1
16/17 - 8-7-1
17/18 - 4-10-0 with 1 game left.

24-34-1 in the last 15 games over his 4 years

(8-7-0 in 16/17)

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by monkeyman

For the record, BT traded picks.
Bolling for a 3rd
Hamilton for a 7th
Elliot for a 2nd and 3rd
Stone for a 3rd and a 5th
Lazar for a 2nd
Smth for a 3rd
Lack for a 6th(got a 7th)
Shore for a 7th
Hamonic 1st 2 2nds
Hamilton 1st 2 2nds

Elliott was just a 2nd the 3rd was conditional of him re-signing.
One pick trade you missed was 2 3rd for a 2nd (Kylington) at the 2015 draft

Here are the picks he acquired.

Glencross for 2nd, 3rd
Baertschi for 2nd
Hudller for 2nd, 4th
Russell for 2nd, prospect (drafted in 2nd 2 drafts prior)


Looking at his drafting history of the weekend

2014- 1st, 2nd, 2nd, 3rd, 6th, 7th (6 picks total)
2015- 2nd, 2nd, 5th, 6th, 7th (5 picks total)
2016- 1st, 2nd, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 6th, 7th (9picks total)
2017- 1st, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th (5 picks total)

25 picks in his 4 drafts when he would have had 28 picks to play with
In his 4 drafts he picked in the first round 3 times, 2nd round 5 times.

One of the 1sts and 4 of the 2nds were used to acquire 2 players that were 22 at the time they were acquired.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Brodie IMO most certainly nets you a top 6 winger in the same age bracket and contract status.

Brodie for Hoffman for example.

Jesus, if Brodie gets you Hoffman you race Brodie to the airport. I don't think that would be the case, imo.

[GordonBlue]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I definitely think of the Flames were to look at upgrading centre Jankowski would be going the other way. He is a Sabres fan as well and fits their age timeline a little better.

To Flames: RoR
To Sabres: Jankowski, Gillies, Ferland

To Leafs: Hamilton
To Flames: Nylander+ 2018 1st

Sign David Perron to a 3 year $3.5M deal

Gaudreau-Monahan-Nylander
Tkachuk-O’Rielly-Perron
Bennett-Backlund-Frolik
Mangiapane-Dube/Vet-Lazar

Giordano-Brodie
UFA/Kulak-Hamonic
Kulak/Valimaki-Stone/Andersson

Smith
Rittich


The forward depth looks amazing but I believe they would want to address the second pairing D as Kulak is probably not ready but Valimaki might be?

No way either of your trades happen. Not giving enough quality to buffalo in the ror trade and expecting too much for hamilton.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by GordonBlue

No way either of your trades happen. Not giving enough quality to buffalo in the ror trade and expecting too much for hamilton.

I can see the RoR trade being a stetch for sure but absolutely disagree on Hamilton.

A 6’5 right shot Dman that has 4 straight 40pt seasons and 4 straight years of increasing goal totals. Over 50pts once in his career signed to a great coach Tracy for 3 years and is under 25. Top 10 in Norris votes last year. I think he gets the Flames a 22 year old 60pt winger that is weak defensively and a pick in the 25 range in the upcoming draft

[GordonBlue]

Think you're underrating nylander a bit.
60 points at 22. He's going to get better and the d will come.
He took the jump everyone hopes bennett can take.
How about nylander and a second.

[mrdonkey]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I can see the RoR trade being a stetch for sure but absolutely disagree on Hamilton.



A 6’5 right shot Dman that has 4 straight 40pt seasons and 4 straight years of increasing goal totals. Over 50pts once in his career signed to a great coach Tracy for 3 years and is under 25. Top 10 in Norris votes last year. I think he gets the Flames a 22 year old 60pt winger that is weak defensively and a pick in the 25 range in the upcoming draft

The value may not be far off but the Flames are the ones dealing from a position of weakness, and Toronto has no need to give up one of their good young forwards. I think Hamilton to the Leafs probably ends up similar to the Phaneuf trade where we’re ending up with someone like Komarov and a bunch of spare parts.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by GordonBlue

Think you're underrating nylander a bit.
60 points at 22. He's going to get better and the d will come.
He took the jump everyone hopes bennett can take.
How about nylander and a second.

I would really want to push for that 1st rounder especially since it is in the 20’s and we are trading the far more valuable position. Personally I don’t want to trade Dougie but I think he is the only piece we can move to recoup a 1st and add the top line winger we need.

Another deal I may entertain even though it is tough to deal with the Oilers is Puljujarvi and the Oilers 1st (7th-10th)

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by mrdonkey

The value may not be far off but the Flames are the ones dealing from a position of weakness, and Toronto has no need to give up one of their good young forwards. I think Hamilton to the Leafs probably ends up similar to the Phaneuf trade where we’re ending up with someone like Komarov and a bunch of spare parts.

Depends on what happens in the playoffs. It seems the belief is that the Leafs are weak on D. If they bow out early, make no question, they will be looking to address that.
In many ways the Flames and Leafs are a great fit. The Flames need F and have D to give, the Leafs need D and have F to give.
And they are in opposite conferences.
It seems like a strong fit.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by mrdonkey

The value may not be far off but the Flames are the ones dealing from a position of weakness, and Toronto has no need to give up one of their good young forwards. I think Hamilton to the Leafs probably ends up similar to the Phaneuf trade where we’re ending up with someone like Komarov and a bunch of spare parts.

Toronto has a fairly weak top 4 and they could use a right shot D badly. They have Kapanen coming up and could be a landing spot for Kovalchuk with the Lou connection. They are absolutely in a position to trade a forward for a D upgrade.

Flames are not dealing from a position of weakness that is laughable. Put a 24 year old Dman without a NTC on the market with that contract and get bids from multiple teams. If you don’t like the return then keep the player.

[Major Major]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

24-34-1 in the last 15 games over his 4 years

(8-7-0 in 16/17)

Fair enough. This set of data does not scream "teams have adjusted to a horrible system" so much as it does that gulutzan teams are often chasing at around the halfway point and often cannot sustain a high enough level of play and run out of gas on the home stretch.

It seemed like a stretch to relate system predictability to mediocre play in the last few games.

[Moneyhands23]

I wonder if Toronto would want gio?

I would try to trade him first. Age/contract would be a possible problem but he has great value and may return a good top 6 player.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Moneyhands23

I wonder if Toronto would want gio?

I would try to trade him first. Age/contract would be a possible problem but he has great value and may return a good top 6 player.

I could see Gio being of interest but we wouldn’t get one of their 2 right shot wingers we would covet.

Would the Leafs consider a deal around Kadri and Gio?

[getbak]

Originally Posted by monkeyman

Hamilton for a 7th

The Freddie trade was a conditional 7th and the conditions weren't met, so the Flames kept the pick. That was essentially a free deal.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

The Lack deal involved the Flames trading a 6th but getting a 7th back. I don't think that's a great illustration of your point
Shore was acquired for a 7th. Also not a great example

I think the most applicable ones are Lazar, Bollig (which was years ago now) and Stone.

I think it is true the Flames have traded a lot of picks, but for the most part it has been to get guys playing up in the lineup.

I wasn’t trying to cherry pick bad trades. It’s a fact that Treliving has traded a ton of picks. To say the guys he has acquired are playing “up” in the lineup is subjective. Some aren’t playing here at all anymore, some have been healthy scratches, some bottom guys, some middle roster guys and Hamilton who is one “top” of the roster guys.

Personally I’m not a fan of this approach until you are at the point where your prospect pool is one of the top in the league and you are getting guys for a championship push.

And yes, some of these trades have been downright awful no matter the situation. Atleast after this off season most of the debts from these trades will have been paid off.

[Moneyhands23]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I could see Gio being of interest but we wouldn’t get one of their 2 right shot wingers we would covet.

Would the Leafs consider a deal around Kadri and Gio?

I would hope to grab their 2nd rd pick in addition to kadri.

But ya I'm greedy

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Depends on what happens in the playoffs. It seems the belief is that the Leafs are weak on D. If they bow out early, make no question, they will be looking to address that.
In many ways the Flames and Leafs are a great fit. The Flames need F and have D to give, the Leafs need D and have F to give.
And they are in opposite conferences.
It seems like a strong fit.

And we are due to win one, amirite? These things have to balance out eventually.