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Old 04-06-2018, 04:12 PM   #441
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Back when this team played an exciting, up-tempo brand of hockey. That was such a fun season.
+25 DIFF that year too.
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Old 04-06-2018, 04:16 PM   #442
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Back when this team played an exciting, up-tempo brand of hockey. That was such a fun season.
I'm under no illusions that the Flames played a brand of hockey that would lead to long term success when Hartley was the coach.

The problem is they made a knee jerk reaction and decided to make a big change to the way the team played as a result of historically bad goaltending.

Did the Flames need better structure in the defensive zone? Absolutely. But what made the Flames absolutely lethal was their transition game with the defense joining the rush, and the ability to score off of that rush. When you take away weapons like Giordano, Brodie, Hamilton, et al from your attack you neutralize one of the key strengths of the roster, which is our mobile top 3 defensemen.

Keep the leash on these guys in the neutral and defensive zones with strong puck pressure and relentless checking. Then allow them the freedom to turn it up and get into the action.

Or pass it back and forth four or five times while the forwards change and the other team puts five skaters in perfect position to defend. Whatever.

Glue Gun needs to go.
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Old 04-06-2018, 04:17 PM   #443
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Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina View Post
D.
or D+Sam.
I think D+Ferland

With Foo playing well that could be a piece in the top nine next year. They haven't seen enough to assume it, but I think its possible.

So you get a top RW (or a 2nd line RW and try them with Monahan and Gaudreau), hope that Foo is good enough to play on the second line. If he he isn't he plays on the third.

Tkachuk on the 2nd
Bennett on the 3rd

and I don't see room for Ferland in the top nine (assuming either Foo, or two wingers acquired)
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Old 04-06-2018, 04:25 PM   #444
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this season is so bad it made people forget the 2015-16 season existed it seems with all this revisionist hartley history
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Old 04-06-2018, 04:30 PM   #445
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Including the disaster Vegas game Jan 30:

Ferland, 28 GP, 2g, 8 assists. -5 - Flames top line RW
Frolik, 32gp, 3g, 7a, -16 - Top 6 fwd
Backlund 32gp, 5g, 8a, -17 - 2nd line centre and former Selke candidate as a defensive centre...who got a 5y contract extension during that span too.

Total 92gp 10 goals for half of our top 6 forwards after what was a tough loss, in over the next 2 calendar months when the action got tougher. Those guys flat out disappeared.

These stats above are the main reason why this team fumbled its chance away on the ice.
Nowhere near good enough.

Tkachuk carried that second line, Frolik was injured earlier in the season but no excuses, but Backlund fell off a cliff. Ferland is the definition of a streaky player but these two+ months have been especially bad, especially with JG lighting it up.
I'm going to take issue with that one.

He has the same amount of assists as last year but 8 fewer goals because his shooting percentage went from 11.2% last year to 6.6% this year (Career shooting percentage before this year was around 9%), and he took the most shots of his entire career at 211, indicating that he created just as much offense.

The -23 is obviously worse, but considering Frolik's drop in play, I can allow for that somewhat. I would have to dig deeper into when the majority of those minuses came (injured starter etc. to consider) but we all know Backlund does the heavy lifting defensively for this team matching up against the opposition's best forwards and largely doing a good job.

I just don't think Backlund was the problem, because when I watched the team play, Backlund was making good plays at both ends of the ice. I'd be careful to not lump him in with the rest of the underperforming players. Shots just didn't go in, possibly due to the GG system that was not creative enough offensively.
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Old 04-06-2018, 04:35 PM   #446
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Here's the Vancouver one. Right side, sneak in, score
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Old 04-06-2018, 04:36 PM   #447
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The Flames were 3rd from last in the PP. That's the problem, and it's a coaching problem.
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Old 04-06-2018, 05:54 PM   #448
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Johnny would certainly be terrible on the PP right side

This is all wrong. He needs to be on the left side so he can collect rim passes along the boards on his fore hand.

I've said it before, but I honestly feel that Laine and Ovechkin would turn into 25 goal per season scorers if they're on the Flames. Playing their natural sides with sticks to the outside on the PP with no lateral puck movement.
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Old 04-06-2018, 05:55 PM   #449
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Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan View Post
I just don't think Backlund was the problem, because when I watched the team play, Backlund was making good plays at both ends of the ice. I'd be careful to not lump him in with the rest of the underperforming players. Shots just didn't go in, possibly due to the GG system that was not creative enough offensively.
He's not been very good and it appears that much like Frolik he's a shadow of the player he was last season without Tkachuk on his right side. I'm not exactly sure why Backlund seems to always bring out the apologists here while guys like Gaudreau, Hamilton, Monahan get constantly criticized. Really he's a veteran player at 29 years old and just got his big pay day so if anyone could have stepped up down the stretch it should have been him yet he's been abysmal. Not a leader and now an expensive checking center. When we discuss big changes to the roster IMO he's one of the first forwards that needs to be in the mix to be traded if there's quality offers.
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Old 04-06-2018, 06:01 PM   #450
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I think D+Ferland

With Foo playing well that could be a piece in the top nine next year. They haven't seen enough to assume it, but I think its possible.

So you get a top RW (or a 2nd line RW and try them with Monahan and Gaudreau), hope that Foo is good enough to play on the second line. If he he isn't he plays on the third.

Tkachuk on the 2nd
Bennett on the 3rd

and I don't see room for Ferland in the top nine (assuming either Foo, or two wingers acquired)
Agree I'm more interested in trading Ferland than Bennett as it stands today. Curious how the returns for the two of them would stack up as I could argue it both ways.
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Old 04-06-2018, 06:06 PM   #451
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I personally think these are the 3 biggest issues facing this team that need to be addressed and the causes of these issues:
I really enjoyed your post but need to give you the gears for saying you would give 3 issues, and then gave them numbers, 1 through 4. It gave me a chuckle.
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Old 04-06-2018, 06:10 PM   #452
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I really enjoyed your post but need to give you the gears for saying you would give 3 issues, and then gave them numbers, 1 through 4. It gave me a chuckle.


I started with 3 things and the list kept growing. It’s been that kind of season for this team. Lol. Forgot to fix that.


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Old 04-06-2018, 06:30 PM   #453
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I do think a few people need a reminder that"normalizing" statistics doesn't mean only taking out those results you don't like.

Considering an 82 game season is already way too long, I don't think we need to do to much of that.
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Old 04-06-2018, 06:36 PM   #454
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The Flames were 3rd from last in the PP. That's the problem, and it's a coaching problem.
Or a lack of skill. If coaching was the real problem of powerplays, then everyone would just copy everyone else and nobody would be last place because there would be a 31-way tie.

But that’s not the case because the biggest and most important variable is skill and this team lacks it. The roster lacks players with legitimate one shot scoring ability, lacks guys who can score from a distance, that’s why there’s no one timer threat which this team sorely needs. Gio and Dougie have hard shots from the backend, but firing shots from the point isn’t necessarily sustainable which is why the 1-3-1 has become so popular.

The second unit was just a big waste of time as they couldn’t even get set up because their puck retrieval is as bad as it gets. That’s not a coaching problem, that’s a skill problem.
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Old 04-06-2018, 06:49 PM   #455
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Originally Posted by Bingo View Post
I think D+Ferland



With Foo playing well that could be a piece in the top nine next year. They haven't seen enough to assume it, but I think its possible.



So you get a top RW (or a 2nd line RW and try them with Monahan and Gaudreau), hope that Foo is good enough to play on the second line. If he he isn't he plays on the third.



Tkachuk on the 2nd

Bennett on the 3rd



and I don't see room for Ferland in the top nine (assuming either Foo, or two wingers acquired)

Ferland and Bennett are still tantalizing due to their playoff potential, but I think one of them needs to go.
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Old 04-06-2018, 06:54 PM   #456
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Ferland and Bennett are still tantalizing due to their playoff potential, but I think one of them needs to go.
But why?

So the Flames can get someone with less talent on a worse contract?

Bennett and Ferland can and do underwhelm at times but of all the players on the Flames, they’re the two most underpaid relative to their top end ability. If they ever put it together they will be great players to have.

What would one even get for them anyways? Picks are useless, the Flames are in win now mode. You’re not going to get someone young with potential, because people don’t trade those players for players like Bennett/Ferland.

So you probably end up putting them in a package for an upgrade (which depletes the already worst-in-the-nhl depth) or you’re just shuffling the deck chairs

There has to be a vision behind how the team is constructed, one can’t just go and trade players willy-nilly because they get bored of them
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Old 04-06-2018, 07:17 PM   #457
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+25 DIFF that year too.
Clearly unsustainable as they had poor CORSI to get that +25 DIFF.

Now under Gulutzan, the flames had great CORSI, and they outshot opponents consistently. Trust the system, wins, losses, goal differential, these do not matter in advanced stats.
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Old 04-06-2018, 07:17 PM   #458
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I still think Bennett is worth holding onto. No he won’t be a 70-80pt number 1 centre but he still has potential to be a solid 25 goal 50pt winger with some edge to his game that can slide to the middle when needed.

Ferland is coming off a 40pt season but also is a year away from being a UFA. I think theyvlilely have similar trade value but it makes way more sense to move Ferland imo.
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Old 04-06-2018, 07:22 PM   #459
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Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper View Post
Or a lack of skill. If coaching was the real problem of powerplays, then everyone would just copy everyone else and nobody would be last place because there would be a 31-way tie.

But that’s not the case because the biggest and most important variable is skill and this team lacks it. The roster lacks players with legitimate one shot scoring ability, lacks guys who can score from a distance, that’s why there’s no one timer threat which this team sorely needs. Gio and Dougie have hard shots from the backend, but firing shots from the point isn’t necessarily sustainable which is why the 1-3-1 has become so popular.

The second unit was just a big waste of time as they couldn’t even get set up because their puck retrieval is as bad as it gets. That’s not a coaching problem, that’s a skill problem.
The Devils just made the playoffs with Hall at 93 points and the next guy 42 points behind him. The Devils have 4 guys with 40+ points, the Flames have 6. The Devils were 11th in the league in PP.

Yes let's blame the problems on skills.
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Old 04-06-2018, 07:27 PM   #460
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That's what she said!
Except for the 60 minutes part.
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