Francis: Treliving filled with disappointment, anger after team's collapse

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by zamler

Would you consider it a fair statement that this is a bubble team under Gulutzan assuming everything goes as perfectly as his system allows? Or was January the norm the rest was not representative of what this team is all about.

1. I have already agreed that January appears to be an outlier—it's there in the post you just quoted.
2. I would agree that the Flames are a bubble team.
3. I have already also agreed that there are systemic issues and serious issues of leadership.
4. I am NOT assuming that all the problems have to do with coaching, and am NOT convinced that the solution is as simple as just replacing the coach.

[Frank MetaMusil]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

4. I am NOT assuming that all the problems have to do with coaching, and am NOT convinced that the solution is as simple as just replacing the coach.

There's a logical method to work toward the solution though. Treliving needs to gut the coaching staff to assess what potential trades may appear if blowing it up/leadership needs are still present.

For the sake of both the GM AND the fanbase, firing the coaching staff has to be priority #1.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

1. I have already agreed that January appears to be an outlier—it's there in the post you just quoted.
2. I would agree that the Flames are a bubble team.
3. I have already also agreed that there are systemic issues and serious issues of leadership.
4. I am NOT assuming that all the problems have to do with coaching, and am NOT convinced that the solution is as simple as just replacing the coach.

If not coaching, what would you think would be the most impactfull thing the Flames cloud do to turn things around over the summer?

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

If not coaching, what would you think would be the most impactfull thing the Flames cloud do to turn things around over the summer?

Top line RW.

[Otto-matic]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

If not coaching, what would you think would be the most impactfull thing the Flames cloud do to turn things around over the summer?

It's interesting to see how this will all unfold if the Flames clear house and we still have the same results as we had for the past two seasons with a new coaching staff.

Do we have too many chefs in the kitchen and not enough servers?

[zamler]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

4. I am NOT assuming that all the problems have to do with coaching, and am NOT convinced that the solution is as simple as just replacing the coach.

No one is suggesting this, not that I've seen. Let's put it this way I can't think of a single reason to keep Gulutzan.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Top line RW.

With what assets?

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

Just 9 games ago the Flames were in the single digits. I wouldn't even count the last a couple weeks here as injuries and call ups have altered the numbers beyond repair. For 90% of this season, this team won a lot of close games and were rarely blown out. Actually, I remember there was a long stretch where this team didn't give up more than 3 goals for something like 2 months. That's the team I would look at, not this current minor league line up.

Single digits negative, or even positive, still get you nowhere near the playoffs. They did have a great run of low scoring games, but lost more than their fair share of them.

This team at its best fixed the PK, played 50/50 5 on 5, but was pretty hopeless on PP save a few brief spurts, and came down to earth 3 on 3. The result was being in the playoff mix by a few points, but vulnerable to bad fortune as occurred with injuries. If they had better offence, particularly PP, they should have been comfortably in a divisional spot and been better able to weather adversity.

I believe the season was lost as much from missed opportunity as from misfortune.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by Locke

With what assets?

Cap space. It's probably going to be a UFA, which sucks if it's anything longer than 2 years.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

Cap space. It's probably going to be a UFA, which sucks if it's anything longer than 2 years.

Sorry, but this is Oiler-logic.

This team is not 1 guy away from Victory.

[Toonage]

The asset(s) to get a top line winger will come from our defense. Be it depth or roster.

Prepare yourselves everyone. We're losing one of Brodie or Hamilton (and maybe an Andersson or Fox).

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Toonage

The asset(s) to get a top line winger will come from our defense. Be it depth or roster.

Prepare yourselves everyone. We're losing one of Brodie or Hamilton.

I doubt it because Brodie wont get you anything and you'd have to be high as balls to trade Hamilton.

[Toonage]

Originally Posted by Locke

I doubt it because Brodie wont get you anything and you'd have to be high as balls to trade Hamilton.

There seems to be this prevailing thought that Brodie is worthless. He really isn't. I think people will be surprised with the return if/when he's moved.

[Fan in Exile]

The Flames goal differential is reflective of their performance over the season as a team. They threw in the towel when they lost hope of making the playoffs and they lost some key players most of whom would have been playing had the season not been lost.

But that doesn't mean they're really +20 better than they are. The Jets went half a season without Scheiffele, Perreault missed several games and lost way more man-games on defence than the Flames. Byfuglien, Trouba, Enstrom, and Kulikov have all missed significant time. Are they actually +20 better than their differential?

When you argue that every statistical indicator that the Flames were a poor team this year are misleading, and every indicator that they are better than their results show is valid, what it mostly shows is that you lack objectivity.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by Locke

Sorry, but this is Oiler-logic.

This team is not 1 guy away from Victory.

I'm not making that argument at all. I think this team need a significant upgrade across the board at a lot of positions. We need a lot more than a good right winger.

You asked the question of what assets we would use to acquire that player. I gave my answer to that question.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Toonage

There seems to be this prevailing thought that Brodie is worthless. He really isn't. I think people will be surprised with the return if/when he's moved.

Hes no Larsson. He wont net you a Top line RW.

[Frank MetaMusil]

Originally Posted by Toonage

There seems to be this prevailing thought that Brodie is worthless. He really isn't. I think people will be surprised with the return if/when he's moved.

Which is a stupid move to make when you need more offence. Brodie > Hamonic when it comes to generating goals, even with his warts.

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by Locke

Sorry, but this is Oiler-logic.

This team is not 1 guy away from Victory.

Aside from the coaching issues which I think we all agree are a big factor, I think this really sells short the fact we have so many young players in our core who are still improving and learning.

I don't think it's as simple as adding one player, but with a different system and some natural progression from core players, I don't think we're a far off as this comment indicates.

A lot can change over one year. Look at the Avs this year, or the Jets. Sometimes things just start to click with young rosters.

[Roof-Daddy]

Brodie IMO most certainly nets you a top 6 winger in the same age bracket and contract status.

Brodie for Hoffman for example.

[Table 5]

Personally, I think the reality is that they will have to do both before they take the next step. A re-do with coaching AND acquire a legit scoring winger.