Francis: Treliving filled with disappointment, anger after team's collapse

[the2bears]

Originally Posted by nik-

Why?

There was a pretty noticeable turn in some of the posts from the team around the time the Arena fiasco was really heating up. I thought the timing was curious, and it seems to have continued into excessive defense of the coaching staff well beyond what would seem normal.

The owners of this site don't owe anything to anyone here except to keep the site running. And if they want it to be profitable, then they should take income from whoever they want. They're not journalists, they've taken no oath to impartiality. It's just curious.

As far as stats, how many times does it need to be pointed out that the results are disconnected from the stats that keep getting parroted? It's borderline zealotry at this point.

Why? You need to ask? Questioning peoples' integrity with nothing more to go on than "their posts disagree with mine"?

Is that okay for you?

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by nik-

Why?

There was a pretty noticeable turn in some of the posts from the team around the time the Arena fiasco was really heating up. I thought the timing was curious, and it seems to have continued into excessive defense of the coaching staff well beyond what would seem normal.

The owners of this site don't owe anything to anyone here except to keep the site running. And if they want it to be profitable, then they should take income from whoever they want. They're not journalists, they've taken no oath to impartiality. It's just curious.

As far as stats, how many times does it need to be pointed out that the results are disconnected from the stats that keep getting parroted? It's borderline zealotry at this point.

There is a disconnect, but not as drastic as everyone is making it out to be. It can still be useful if you approach it in the right way, but if you rely on it too much in spite of all other evidence, of course it's stupid. Nobody is saying that though.

As for the comments about certain posters being in the pocket of the Flames, it's incredibly disrespectful and it only creates divisiveness around here. I don't find that to be very productive for a quality discussion to insinuate that their opinions are paid off by the organization, do you?

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

There is more to it. Several Flames players suffered historically bad shooting percentages, which I think points to a problem beyond absent skill: Backlund is quite consistently a 10–12% shooter, but was less than 7% this year; the same with Bennett; Frolik's SP was the lowest it has been in five years, and Brodie's less than half of where he has been shooting the past three years. Even though Giordano had a solid year his SP was lower by a bit than it has been the past few seasons.

There is clearly some evidence there to suggest that the key players are good enough, but execution was a serious, perplexing problem for too many of them.

Was it poor execution, or was it that the team could not sustain pressure enough to create quality scoring chances? Shots don't mean anything if the opposing team is forcing them to either shoot or turn the puck over. That screams systems and motivation problems.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by the2bears

Why? You need to ask? Questioning peoples' integrity with nothing more to go on than "their posts disagree with mine"?

Is that okay for you?

Integrity in what? This is a hockey forum. Again, they don't owe anyone here anything. They can post however they want for whatever motives they want.

That does nothing to discredit their integrity.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by nik-

Why?

There was a pretty noticeable turn in some of the posts from the team around the time the Arena fiasco was really heating up. I thought the timing was curious, and it seems to have continued into excessive defense of the coaching staff well beyond what would seem normal.

The owners of this site don't owe anything to anyone here except to keep the site running (and even that they don't). And if they want it to be profitable, then they should take income from whoever they want. They're not journalists, they've taken no oath to impartiality. It's just curious.

As far as stats, how many times does it need to be pointed out that the results are disconnected from the stats that keep getting parroted? It's borderline zealotry at this point.

Let's be clear. I am NOT an owner of this site. Bingo is the owner.

I care about this site because i think it is a great place for fans to discuss hockey.

I've never been paid a dime to do anything for this site though. Nor have I ever been paid by the Flames.

So yeah I resent the notion that because I have a different opinion that I'm on the Flames' payroll.

You seem to have a real problem accepting that someone can have a different viewpoint than you for rationale reasons.

These are not black and white or binary things. Different opinions ARE possible.

And as for opinions changing - go back and look at my history. I've been a long defender of coaches for taking too much blame. That ain't new. If anything it's annoyingly old.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by nik-

Integrity in what? This is a hockey forum. Again, they don't owe anyone here anything. They can post however they want for whatever motives they want.

That does nothing to discredit their integrity.

Suggesting someone has an opinion because they are being paid to have that opinion, or benefit in some financial way isn't discrediting their integrity?
In what world.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Suggesting someone has an opinion because they are being paid to have that opinion, or benefit in some financial way isn't discrediting their integrity?
In what world.

In the world of a hockey forum where none of this matters. None of this discussion is all that important in the scheme of things.

[the2bears]

Originally Posted by nik-

Integrity in what? This is a hockey forum. Again, they don't owe anyone here anything. They can post however they want for whatever motives they want.

That does nothing to discredit their integrity.

Re-read what was posted. You're wrong, I think. It was suggested they are on the Flames' payroll and that their editorial content is a product of that.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by nik-

In the world of a hockey forum where none of this matters.

My integrity matters to me.
What you say should matter to you.
Stand behind your words.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

My integrity matters to me.
What you say should matter to you.
Stand behind your words.

I do stand by what I said. The tonal shift of some of the mod posters, considering the timing, I found suspicious.

Is considering that maybe the Flames reached out to the team of the biggest team discussion forum really outrageous? It's really not. If it's wrong, it's wrong. But the reasons some people find it plausible are not illogical.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by nik-

In the world of a hockey forum where none of this matters. None of this discussion is all that important in the scheme of things.

Then why the hell are you here? That's quite the nihilistic stance to take, and I kind of admire it a little from that respect, but if its meaningless...don't bother posting anymore about it?

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

Then why the hell are you here? That's quite the nihilistic stance to take, and I kind of admire it a little from that respect, but if its meaningless...don't bother posting anymore about it?

Because I like this forum.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by nik-

I do stand by what I said. The tonal shift of some of the mod posters, considering the timing, I found suspicious.

Is considering that maybe the Flames reached out to the team of the biggest team forum really outrageous? It's really not. If it's wrong, it's wrong. But the reasons some people find it plausible are not illogical.

If you are going to accuse people or this site of that you better have some proof. Just because you are behind your keyboard doesn't mean you get to go around with baseless accusations, such as that someone is on the take.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

If you are going to accuse people or this site of that you better have some proof.

haha, and how would I ever get proof of something I'm simply suggesting is plausible.

Come on Jiri.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by nik-

haha, and how would I ever get proof of something I'm simply suggesting is plausible.

Come on Jiri.

Then don't go around accusing people of it.
Don't come on me.
It isn't unreasonable to ask that people don't accuse others of being on the take absent any proof of it.
You don't get to do that.
How would you feel if someone at your work accused you have taking a bribe from a supplier.
And then defended it by saying it was "plausible".
It's off side. Way off side.

[mrdonkey]

[photon]

Originally Posted by nik-

In the world of a hockey forum where none of this matters. None of this discussion is all that important in the scheme of things.

What you say to people matters, regardless of if it's on a hockey forum or at work or at home.

You're welcome to entertain your private fantasies about secret payments and conspiracies on your own time, but you aren't welcome to do it here where it insults the integrity of Bingo and the mods.

[the2bears]

Originally Posted by nik-

haha, and how would I ever get proof of something I'm simply suggesting is plausible.

Come on Jiri.

You just went full tabloid. The Fox News of posting.

[redforever]

Originally Posted by nik-

I do stand by what I said. The tonal shift of some of the mod posters, considering the timing, I found suspicious.

Is considering that maybe the Flames reached out to the team of the biggest team discussion forum really outrageous? It's really not. If it's wrong, it's wrong. But the reasons some people find it plausible are not illogical.

You should quit digging.

Not all of us agree on this site but I have always appreciated the opinions of Jiri and Bingo and would never question their integrity.

[photon]

Originally Posted by nik-

haha, and how would I ever get proof of something I'm simply suggesting is plausible.

Just as plausible as you being paid by the Oilers' organization to sow chaos among Flames fans.