Francis: Treliving filled with disappointment, anger after team's collapse

[icecube]

Originally Posted by stone hands

10-15 games left they were still in the hunt

You don't take team that has a shot still no matter how slim and throw a brand new coach in during the stretch drive for the playoffs

When he wasn't replaced early this season it was a sign he was here until the offseason

The post he quoted gave an example of the Devils firing their coach with fewer games left in the season and going on to win the Stanley Cup!

[stone hands]

Originally Posted by icecube

The post he quoted gave an example of the Devils firing their coach with fewer games left in the season and going on to win the Stanley Cup!

What place were the devils in at the time they fired their coach

Were they one or two points or holding a wildcard or were they clinched

Huge difference

[Psytic]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

At least we didn't have to hear about "the process" this time. That was always such a cop-out answer for him in the past.

I was never really inspired by Treliving's talk and never understood the cult following he enjoys. Four seasons in, he should not still be trying to determine the identity of the team. Not that I don't think he hasn't made some good deals and signings, but the bad is starting to outweigh the good IMO. The results this season can attest to that.

I don't either. We look more like the Phoenix Coyotes everyday. At best he is average. Hes no great wizard though that's for sure. Not only does GG need to go, but we need to find a second line scoring center and RW. If anything Backlund and Frolik will continue to trend the way they did this year. They have obviously been propped up by Tkachuk and would be best suited for the third line.

[djsFlames]

I would've been proactive, paid up and popped Darryl in there at about 2 or 3 games into the losing skid to really shock the team and kick them in the side at the same time. But what do I know, I'm just someone that is open to taking risks when there's nothing to lose because I'm aware of the expectations and want to try and meet them rather than allow the season to go to waste. I guess watching them whimper out was the better move cause it's less knee-jerky, never mind the empty building to close out the year or the consecutive blowouts. No big deal for a team that spent on a highly sought dman to allow them to go on what was supposed to be a run.

I like Teelivings mindset but he's patient to a fault and that can't be more evident.

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by stone hands

What place were the devils in at the time they fired their coach

Were they one or two points or holding a wildcard or were they clinched

Huge difference

It was pretty clear several weeks ago this team was done and packing it in. So at that point you make the decision to allow things to fester or to try to shake things up even just to restore some pride and fighting spirit in the club. They chose the former. I just don't think its been a healthy period for the club overall.

[SportsJunky]

Originally Posted by Galakanokis

Well, glad to hear that he knows there is a problem with this team. Now the question becomes does he think it is a coaching issue or a player issue? Attitude reflect leadership. Leadership is on the coaching and the players but to me the identity of the team comes from the coach and you need your player leaders to buy in. Even Sutter said it to Gulutzan around the 2004. Can't quite remember the quote but it is roughly "I didn't do anything once the players bought in". The key there is the players bought in. Pretty obvious to me the Flames this year didi not buy in.

OEL said something similar last night to Roger Millions. He said they were a bad team until they bought into the new system and have been a good team since January.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

...I like Teelivings mindset but he's patient to a fault and that can't be more evident.

To be clear, Treliving's approach to this is carefully calculated:

Originally Posted by Brad Treliving

"How we’ve finished is not lost on me. But the answer is going to be found once the emotion subsides and the dark cloud dissipates and you can look with a clear mind."

Let's not mistake "patience" with a lack of urgency or disengagement. Treliving is right about ensuring that the decision is not an emotional one, and arriving at that point will usually take some time.

[Psytic]

Originally Posted by Galakanokis

Well, glad to hear that he knows there is a problem with this team. Now the question becomes does he think it is a coaching issue or a player issue? Attitude reflect leadership. Leadership is on the coaching and the players but to me the identity of the team comes from the coach and you need your player leaders to buy in. Even Sutter said it to Gulutzan around the 2004. Can't quite remember the quote but it is roughly "I didn't do anything once the players bought in". The key there is the players bought in. Pretty obvious to me the Flames this year didi not buy in.

I think the players bought in but its a terrible and boring system that does not cater to the teams strengths at all. It would be just like the Flames to trade off good players to support the system ala GG 1.0 rather than implementing a system that fits the team. When are they going to learn?

[4X4]

It took the team until half way through last season to buy in, but then they bought out half way through this season, once it was clear that GG's system is not a winning formula. It's been obvious all year, and about half way through, the players stopped believing in it. Especially after a few months of baffling player deployment. They are professional hockey players. They can see that GG has no f-ing clue what he's doing as head coach.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

It's something that needs to come from within the younger players on this roster. Guys like Monahan, Gaudreau, Hamilton, etc need to evolve from being happy to play in the NHL and collect a big check to wanting nothing else but the cup. It doesn't happen overnight and may never happen for this group but outside of adding a head coach that shoulders a lot of the leadership burden I don't know what else they can do.

They can move out a core piece(s) to change the chemistry of the team.

Originally Posted by Textcritic

"Hating to lose" is such a cliché when it comes to NHL players; its the same thing with criticizing the coach for his perceptibly dispassionate demeanour behind the bench. One does not get to play in this League without being extremely competitive and dedicated to their craft in the first place. Every NHL player and coach hates losing whether they wear it on their sleeve or not.

So what do you think Treliving meant when he said: "There’s an emotional level you have to get to to assist you in winning and we have to look into that..."

[Hackey]

I think a change in coach should make a difference but I feel like there needs to be a shake up with the team as well. Something is off about the group where I'm not confident that a coaching change alone is the answer. This should be an interesting off season.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

...So what do you think Treliving meant when he said: "There’s an emotional level you have to get to to assist you in winning and we have to look into that..."

Don't get me wrong, here: I believe that this team struggles with harnessing and using their emotion on the ice, and I think this is what Treliving is getting at—that the emotions the players already experience can be used to help them win more often and consistently.

What I take issue with is this idea that some players are "okay with losing."

[stone hands]

Originally Posted by Igottago

It was pretty clear several weeks ago this team was done and packing it in. So at that point you make the decision to allow things to fester or to try to shake things up even just to restore some pride and fighting spirit in the club. They chose the former. I just don't think its been a healthy period for the club overall.

You can't, as a professional sporting club with real life dollar implications for playoff games throw in the towel while you're in the hunt. You just can't do it. Hindsight is always 20/20

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by SportsJunky

OEL said something similar last night to Roger Millions. He said they were a bad team until they bought into the new system and have been a good team since January.

Are they though?

Its funny how much results drive the narrative from the media, the fans, the opposition when the true story is they're riding a very hot goaltender.

They routinely get out shot and out chanced but win with their goaltender in the spot light.

He's part of the team so it counts, but I'm not so sure anything changed beyond the guy with the fluffy leg pads getting it done.

[Cube Inmate]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

To be clear, Treliving's approach to this is carefully calculated:

Let's not mistake "patience" with a lack of urgency or disengagement. Treliving is right about ensuring that the decision is not an emotional one, and arriving at that point will usually take some time.

Emotionless, calculating manager hires emotionless, calculating coach leading to emotionless, robotic team? We've certainly accused the players of having lack of urgency & engagement, while GG & co have called it "patience."

IMO, sometimes a little emotion at the top levels can be a good thing.

The team's hole was almost too deep to climb out of even 4 weeks ago. At that point, a little emotion and impatience would have been a good thing with no downside. Even if patience is needed to get things fixed properly, a good ol' coach firing would have at least sent the message that it's time to stop digging the hole deeper.

[stone hands]

There sure isn't any downsides when you have the benefit of hindsight

Context is important

[flambers]

I guess the other question that will or should be asked, will the GM survive this mess...

Clearly the forward ranks had/has major issues this was obvious all season...

Flames lack identity...

However, I agree you don't state anything negative about the coaching staff

Wait till the season is over, meet with everyone and handle it professionally

[gargamel]

Originally Posted by stone hands

There sure isn't any downsides when you have the benefit of hindsight

Context is important

Without the benefit of hindsight, the vast majority of the fan base knew that the only way to save the season was to make a coaching change back in December. Why didn’t Treliving?

When 70+% of the fans have a better read on the situation than the GM, it’s fair to start asking questions.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Cube Inmate

Emotionless, calculating manager hires emotionless, calculating coach leading to emotionless, robotic team?...

And again, there is a huge difference between lacking emotion and controlling it by refusing to act recklessly upon it.

I will take the calculated, cold decision-maker over the knee-jerk reactionary every time.

[Buff]

Remember last season when there was concern whether or not Treliving would re-sign? Speculation was that he wanted more autonomy to do his job the way he felt it needs to be done. I wonder if he wasn't able to hire some coaches because he wasn't asked to spend enough money on a higher prices coach? Maybe now he does?

Maybe he didn't fire Gulutzan mid season because he didn't have confidence in what was in the system to take the reigns for the reminder of the season, nor did he like what was available at that time. Now that the season is done Treliving can begin the search because there is sure to be coaches made available over the next month or two. He has a plan and a way of doing things and he's not the type to make a knee jerk reaction just for the sake of doing something because often knee jerk reactions don't work out or even make things worse.