Francis: Treliving filled with disappointment, anger after team's collapse

[kukkudo]

Originally Posted by Frank MetaMusil

Dammit this is scary.

Nah what else is he going to say to the media. Come Monday, "We are trying to establish a new identity here and will be starting the hiring process in the coming weeks"

[Looch City]

Flames having identity problems. What year is this, 2010?

Feels like we've been through this before...

[Gaudreau is a Ninja]

Please Tre don't forget to upgrade the scoring on this team as well

[CroFlames]

This speaks volumes to me:

“There’s an emotional level you have to get to to assist you in winning and we have to look into that,”

When a hockey guy who is at the pinnacle of this sport says you need emotion to help you win games, I feel vindicated. So many times you hear people say a fight can't/doesn't spark a team, or things like "why retaliate and take a penalty?".

In the long run, the extra 2 mins you get is negligible compared to how you make a teammate feel when you genuinely standup for him when an opponent is molesting him. Guys at every level feel a boost when they see a teammate to go battle for them. I know that doesn't show up on counting stats or the fancy stats, but it's a real thing. There are intangibles in hockey and I hope we don't remove all emotion from the game so it truly becomes a dump, chase, change library event.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

This speaks volumes to me:



When a hockey guy who is at the pinnacle of this sport says you need emotion to help you win games, I feel vindicated. So many times you hear people say a fight can't/doesn't spark a team, or things like "why retaliate and take a penalty?".

In the long run, the extra 2 mins you get is negligible compared to how you make a teammate feel when you genuinely standup for him when an opponent is molesting him. Guys at every level feel a boost when they see a teammate to go battle for them. I know that doesn't show up on counting stats or the fancy stats, but it's a real thing. There are intangibles in hockey and I hope we don't remove all emotion from the game so it truly becomes a dump, chase, change library event.

I don't think anybody disagrees that "emotion" plays a role.

I think the problem is that "emotion" then gets immediately changed to "we need a fighter" or "this team needs more toughness".

Personally I think the loss of a guy like Paul Byron is a bigger impact to the difference in team emotion over the last 3 seasons compared to the emotion they showed in 14/15, than a guy going and fighting.

Byron, much like a guy like Tkachuk, did a great job of pulling the rest of the team into a game. His speed, tenacity, and drive would give the coaching staff somebody to point at and say "Look at Paulie, he's 5'8" and goes out there and battles with the 6'3" guy. He's Fearless".

This team needs more guys that go out there EVERY SINGLE SHIFT and play with speed, and some tenacity to wake them up. Not just a tough guy that will sit on the bench 90% of the time but will go out and chuck knuckles once every 4 games.

And I think that is where the coaching staff can be questioned. Bennett, Lazar, Ferland, Hathaway have all shown that "drive" and "emotion" at times in the past but as time passed it seemed to diminish under this coaching staff. Why did that happen and why could the coaching staff not get them to play a way they seemed to be willing to play in the past?

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by Frank MetaMusil

Dammit this is scary.

Finally, Treliving supports the coach.

GG is gone.

[zamler]

Why spare Gulutzan's feels #### that just fire the guy already. Thank him for his service and goodbye. Don't tell me he's a good coach because feelings. Good lord.

[Galakanokis]

Well, glad to hear that he knows there is a problem with this team. Now the question becomes does he think it is a coaching issue or a player issue? Attitude reflect leadership. Leadership is on the coaching and the players but to me the identity of the team comes from the coach and you need your player leaders to buy in. Even Sutter said it to Gulutzan around the 2004. Can't quite remember the quote but it is roughly "I didn't do anything once the players bought in". The key there is the players bought in. Pretty obvious to me the Flames this year didi not buy in.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Frank MetaMusil

Dammit this is scary.

Kiss of Death.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by zamler

Why spare Gulutzan's feels #### that just fire the guy already. Thank him for his service and goodbye. Don't tell me he's a good coach because feelings. Good lord.

Because he's a guy that the GM has worked with for a couple years and probably has a relationship with. And BT probably feels he IS a good coach even if he doesn't think he is right for this team.
These things aren't binary.
No need to treat the guy like crud on the way out.
Good lord indeed.

[zamler]

Treat him like crud, oh the hyperbole.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by zamler

Why spare Gulutzan's feels #### that just fire the guy already. Thank him for his service and goodbye. Don't tell me he's a good coach because feelings. Good lord.

Cause it would be useless to fire him now - they will wait and do it on Monday/Tuesday.

IMO he didn't even really give him a vote of confidence. The "I'm not getting into any of that" actually felt pretty noncommittal and negative.

He kind of softened with the "I think we have a good coach" but even then he followed that up with "but we’re all subject to scrutiny when a season goes like this".

Personally that felt more like a statement of GG being on borrowed time than anything.

Has nothing to do with "feelings" but just common courtesy to not throw a guy under the bus on the way out and really the organization would look petty & stupid to fire him once eliminated with less than 5 games left.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by zamler

Treat him like crud, oh the hyperbole.

You asked why spare his feelings.
Not having empathy to someone and not treating them well is treating them like crud.
He doesn't deserve that.

[MissTeeks]

When was the last time a coach got fired with two games left in the season in any sport?

[VladtheImpaler]

It's funny - the GM's going back years have continually whined about "character", "tenacity" and "spark", yet have always managed to trade/lose the "sparkiest" guy on the team - Byron, Prust twice,... Like, really? Not trying to re-start those debates per se - just saying that you want "spark", yet...

[The Fonz]

“There’s an emotional level you have to get to to assist you in winning and we have to look into that,” said Treliving.

“Are we emotionally invested enough? We’re missing something. I think we’ve got to find a way to be more emotionally engaged.

Perhaps I'm letting my bias influence my perception, but to me, these comments seem like a clear shot at GG's robotic and emotionless approach to games. The rigid structure and inflexibility have been a major damper on this team's passion level.

Full disclosure, I also thought Smith's comments after the Glass/Lucic fight were directed at GG. It was Gulutzan's decision to have Glass fight Lucic, instead of Ferland or Hathaway.

[zamler]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

You asked why spare his feelings.
Not having empathy to someone and not treating them well is treating them like crud.
He doesn't deserve that.

No one is saying don't show empathy. But you don't come out and say we have a good coach then fire him 2 days later. It's completely unnecessary, just say we are evaluating that's it or say nothing at all.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by zamler

No one is saying don't show empathy. But you don't come out and say we have a good coach then fire him 2 days later. It's completely unnecessary, just say we are evaluating that's it or say nothing at all.

Why does it matter? Apart from you wanting to get your pound of flesh.

[Frank MetaMusil]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Because he's a guy that the GM has worked with for a couple years and probably has a relationship with. And BT probably feels he IS a good coach even if he doesn't think he is right for this team.
These thinks aren't binary.
No need to treat the guy like crud on the way out.
Good lord indeed.

Gulutzan isn't a good NHL coach, he's just not. He's won nothing, even a single playoff game. This stared Treliving in the face for an entire season and he did nothing.

Firing him isn't treating him like crud, it's diagnosing the issues & weaknesses on your team. Letting things circle the drain for an entire season isn't acceptable. Gulutzan will survive, he's even got his house in Vegas still! Go Wranglers!

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler

It's funny - the GM's going back years have continually whined about "character", "tenacity" and "spark", yet have always managed to trade/lose the "sparkiest" guy on the team - Byron, Prust twice,... Like, really? Not trying to re-start those debates per se - just saying that you want "spark", yet...

GM and coaching staff can't judge assets properly.

This has been a long-standing problem with this organization.