Thoughts on Liberal leadership race?

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by transplant99

in this thread i see props to a corrupt Liberal government who only inherited a mess from someone else even though they made things even worse all by their majority selves, and then a thought process that the current Conservative leader isn't swashbuckling enough to be re-elected.

Yup...sounds about what it has for the last 30 years in Canada. Its truly mind-boggling.

Yep there were problems...and it sure as heck doesnt look like the Cons under Harper are going to move far away from that position.

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by flambers

Its not about the Gun Registry its how our tax dollars are being spent. Remember this program has caused billions of dollars basically flushed down the toilet.

and Kleins handout of Ralph Bucks wasnt a total waste?

[flambers]

Originally Posted by Cheese

and Kleins handout of Ralph Bucks wasnt a total waste?

How was that a waste? Its about time governments give back to people especially when they have a massive surplus in the Billions.

[edn88]

Originally Posted by browna

Dion and Ignitief on final ballot...Rae is toast.

Wow, so it is Iggy and Dion on the final ballot - who do you choose?

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by flambers

How was that a waste? Its about time governments give back to people especially when they have a massive surplus in the Billions.

how about building affordable housing for the thousands of people who cant find a place to live in the valhalla created by Klein and company?
Why not reduce taxes or provide additional seniors housing to take the heat off the Province in future years as the Baby Boomers come of age? Why not build better infrastructure, reduce taxes to zilch, or heavens forbid...drop all of the surtaxes in the form of fees you have to pay for every service that has been privatized by Ralph? So much more that could be done with it than to provide a few hundred bucks to an obviously wealthy population?

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by edn88

Wow, so it is Iggy and Dion on the final ballot - who do you choose?

Its the worst case scenario for the Libs....Iggy the academic isnt the right choice whatsoever and Dion will alienate the country with another French leader.
If Iggy wins, and Morton wins Alberta look forward to big battles on the horizon.
Radio and CBC reports are suggesting Dion may pull this one out of the hat.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

(1) I didn't live in Ontario at the time of the Rae government, but I have knocked on doors for the NDP after Rae's term and there is still a lot of anger here. I think it is misplaced. Peterson had a huge debt, Rae won on the promise of new spending programs WHICH THE PEOPLE WANTED and when Mulroney and the Conservatives put our economy in the toilet, Rae couldn't please anybody. Spending too much for the people on the right of the spectrum, spending too low for the left of the spectrum and those in the middle were just ****ed off at every politician alive for what Mulroney and Crow were doing to the economy. Even though I believe the anger to misplaced, you cannot deny it is there, so I'm pleased to see that Rae is off the fourth ballot.
(2) Each candidate has a liability... there isn't a super amazing candidate that will take the world by storm. I think the Liberals should sit back for a year or two to build up their current leadership, distance themselves from past leadership and THEN pounce on the Conservatives.
(3) Personally, I think Belinda looks better with the black hair. But I realize to most in Alberta, she's the most reviled human being on the planet, only rivaled by Osama, so I didn't expect anyone else to say anything similar.

Rae ****ed up that province. He entered in the early 90's just as the conservatives were exiting. The economy was on the rebound. He had no idea at all on how to manage the economy....I mean how would he? NDP have a no idea when the economy is good.....when it is bad they are completly dazed as tyo what to do. He spend billions....when that didn't worked he cut drastically. He pushed affermative action at the completly wrong time. He is clueless. Even he has admitted that what he did was wrong.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by Cheese

and Kleins handout of Ralph Bucks wasnt a total waste?

A waste? How is returning tax dollars to citizens a waste? I will tell you what a waste is.....deciding that the citizens of Alberta aren't smart enough to decide what they can do with their own money. So the government better spend it for them. Lets make a big program and spend the money that way. Any time the government gives money back to the people....it is by far a waste.

[flambers]

Originally Posted by Cheese

how about building affordable housing for the thousands of people who cant find a place to live in the valhalla created by Klein and company?
Why not reduce taxes or provide additional seniors housing to take the heat off the Province in future years as the Baby Boomers come of age? Why not build better infrastructure, reduce taxes to zilch, or heavens forbid...drop all of the surtaxes in the form of fees you have to pay for every service that has been privatized by Ralph? So much more that could be done with it than to provide a few hundred bucks to an obviously wealthy population?

LOL, sounds like a person who wished he lives in Alberta....

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Cheese

Its the worst case scenario for the Libs....Iggy the academic isnt the right choice whatsoever and Dion will alienate the country with another French leader.
If Iggy wins, and Morton wins Alberta look forward to big battles on the horizon.
Radio and CBC reports are suggesting Dion may pull this one out of the hat.

If god forbid either of these guys manage to become the Prime Minister of this country, look for Alberta to start pushing towards more independance from confederation.

They have nothing to offer this province, and Dion in particular is particularly hostile towards the Energy sector.

Iggy is plain and simple going to cater to Ontario, he has no sense of Canada since he hasn't been a part of it for a long time.

If Dion wins or Iggy wins, it makes me think that in a lot of ways that Morton is the proper counter for them.

[edn88]

Originally Posted by Cheese

Its the worst case scenario for the Libs....Iggy the academic isnt the right choice whatsoever and Dion will alienate the country with another French leader.
If Iggy wins, and Morton wins Alberta look forward to big battles on the horizon.
Radio and CBC reports are suggesting Dion may pull this one out of the hat.

I was making a bad joke - Iggy the power forward or Dion the crushing defenceman.

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

Rae ****ed up that province. He entered in the early 90's just as the conservatives were exiting. The economy was on the rebound. He had no idea at all on how to manage the economy....I mean how would he? NDP have a no idea when the economy is good.....when it is bad they are completly dazed as tyo what to do. He spend billions....when that didn't worked he cut drastically. He pushed affermative action at the completly wrong time. He is clueless. Even he has admitted that what he did was wrong.

LOL...the economy was NOT rebounding when they took power....not even in the valhalla called Alberta.

Bob Rae without Rose colored glasses

There are many reasons for the Rae government's loss of popularity between 1991 and 1993. The NDP had never governed Ontario before, and Ontario was experiencing its worst recession since the Great Depression.

In addition, the Rae government initially underestimated the extent of the North American recession. Their first budget projected a deficit of almost ten billion dollars, and enacted a series of spending programs to mitigate the worst effects of an economic lag. Some have described this budget as following a Keynesian orthodoxy, spending money in the public sector to stimulate employment and productivity. Unfortunately, the monies provided for in the budget were insufficient against the recession, and did not create enough productivity.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by Cheese

how about building affordable housing for the thousands of people who cant find a place to live in the valhalla created by Klein and company?
Why not reduce taxes or provide additional seniors housing to take the heat off the Province in future years as the Baby Boomers come of age? Why not build better infrastructure, reduce taxes to zilch, or heavens forbid...drop all of the surtaxes in the form of fees you have to pay for every service that has been privatized by Ralph? So much more that could be done with it than to provide a few hundred bucks to an obviously wealthy population?

Although I agree that something needs to be done as far as affordable housing is concerned....it is not the responsibility of the government to do this. They can easily provide land to developers at a much reduced cost....rather than actually building building.

Since when did the crunch on affortable housing become the outcome of the klien government? It is called capitalism.....high oil....lots of jobs....low taxes. (A BOOM) that is what caused this crunch.

We spend more than any other province per capita on infrastrucutre....you complain that Klien has caused the affortable housing crunch yet you want to spend more on infrastructure when we don't have the workers here to finish the projects at hand. Doesn't make a lot of sense.

As far as user fees....I prefer a pay as you go system where one pays for the services they use and it is not subsidized by people who do not use the system. That is only fair. The only thing that I think the government needs to do away with are the Health premiums....something that Morton wants to do but Dinning doesn't *and just so everyone knows....dinning is a Liberal in a Conservative coat.)

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by flambers

LOL, sounds like a person who wished he lives in Alberta....

LOL...nah the weather sucks!

[octothorp]

Originally Posted by Cheese

Its the worst case scenario for the Libs....Iggy the academic isnt the right choice whatsoever and Dion will alienate the country with another French leader.
If Iggy wins, and Morton wins Alberta look forward to big battles on the horizon.
Radio and CBC reports are suggesting Dion may pull this one out of the hat.

And what, during Canada's history, would suggest that the country is alienated by french-canadians as leaders? Maybe Albertans don't like PMs from Quebec, but they've run Canada for about 40 of the last 60 years.

[FLAMESBURNOIL]

Originally Posted by Table 5

So just like the vote in Alberta will determine the next premier of this province, the national Liberal leadership race has a great chance of determining the next Prime Minister of Canada. Let's face it, all the Liberals have to do is steady their ship, and the chances of them coming back into power in the next election are pretty damn good.

Interesting to note however, that while many thousands are deciding the provincial direction in Alberta, if you look at the Liberal vote numbers, they are being decided by a much smaller (although more official party delegate) group.

I can't get enough of Liberal arrogance!!! That all it takes hey?

[fanforever1986]

Now I remember why I was so glad when Chrietean stepped down. Whata tool.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by Cheese

LOL...the economy was NOT rebounding when they took power....not even in the valhalla called Alberta.

Bob Rae without Rose colored glasses

There are many reasons for the Rae government's loss of popularity between 1991 and 1993. The NDP had never governed Ontario before, and Ontario was experiencing its worst recession since the Great Depression.

In addition, the Rae government initially underestimated the extent of the North American recession. Their first budget projected a deficit of almost ten billion dollars, and enacted a series of spending programs to mitigate the worst effects of an economic lag. Some have described this budget as following a Keynesian orthodoxy, spending money in the public sector to stimulate employment and productivity. Unfortunately, the monies provided for in the budget were insufficient against the recession, and did not create enough productivity.

Ahhh....check the numbers Cheese. The early 90's say the rebound of the economy. Instead of a 3.1% decline in GDP in the mid 80's it was down to only 1.6% in the early 90's.....so Rae wasn't governing in the worst part of the recession.

[fanforever1986]

Originally Posted by FLAMESBURNOIL

I can't enough of Liberal arrogance!!! That all it takes hey?

I was gonna say the same thing, this parties arrogance is sickening. Any other country in the world would do away with the Liberal party faster than the idea of socialism.

And what the hell is with the media coverage? The CBC has NEVER covered a conservative LS race like this. Stephen (or should i say steve mr. chrietean, good one) should roll head over at the CBC.

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by fanforever1986

I was gonna say the same thing, this parties arrogance is sickening. Any other country in the world would do away with the Liberal party faster than the idea of socialism.

And what the hell is with the media coverage? The CBC has NEVER covered a conservative LS race like this. Stephen (or should i say steve mr. chrietean, good one) should roll head over at the CBC.

LOL...I think the Cons get the same coverage that the Libs get...but I must admit I do find it increasingly funny that Alberta seem to be the only province pushing the Cons on the ROC. Face it...they are not the answer...we dont need their ideology as it stands right now to be successful.