Treliving needs to start feeling the heat

[Vinny01]

If the Leafs offered Nylander and their 1st (~25thOA) for Dougie I could see Trelivng looking at that. Toronto may decide to keep JVR or sign Kvalchuk and could make the 22 year old RFA available for an upgrade on the blue line.

Flames get a highly skilled right shot forward which is a huge need for the Flames. They could lock him up to a similar cap hit as Dougie with a 6 year term opposed to the 3 left on Hamiltons deal. The Flames also recoup a pick in the first round which is rumoured to be something they are looking to do.

I honestly see Hamitlon as the only player that we could move on the blue line that would come close to adding the type of forward and draft pick the team wants.

[SportsJunky]

Also, Nylander is a good Calgary boy.

[Stay Golden]

Gulutzan has ripped any will out of this roster, destroyed any shred of honor of this team. Treliving has just watched his hire run fans out of the building, emptying half the building the last 10 min of games for the past 2 weeks and still did nothing. The final 5 minutes only 3/4 of fans have remained to watch his %€£¥ show. That's not on the fans that's on Gulutzan and Management doing absolutely squat about him. Should have fired him the very game the team quit on him and yes they cleary have quit on this chump.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Stay Golden

Gulutzan has ripped any will out of this roster, destroyed any shred of honor of this team. Treliving has just watched his hire run fans out of the building, emptying half the building the last 10 min of games for the past 2 weeks and still did nothing. The final 5 minutes only 3/4 of fans have remained to watch his %€£¥ show. That's not on the fans that's on Gulutzan and Management doing absolutely squat about him. Should have fired him the very game the team quit on him and yes they cleary have quit on this chump.

He needs to be fired but the roster right now is terrible...league worst or damn near.

Shore and Foo on the first line

[Jiri Hrdina]

I see no quit in the team. I realize people want to say the team has quit on the coach because that’s the narrative, but there’s actually no evidence of that

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I'm not cherry picking anything. I showed the full view of his drafts.
I'm of the mind that you take BPA. I'm also not convinced you've actually looked across all teams to see how they break down relative to the Flames. If so - show your work.

The Preds are actually an example of why you should take BPA. They have been always STOCKED at D to the point that they were over flowing, so they traded Jones for a Ry-Jo and Girard (plus other pieces) for Turris.

So you asked me to show my work

In the first three rounds of the 2014-2017 drafts all teams took more forwards than dmen with the following exceptions

Teams that took the same number of forwards and defencement - Washington and Pittsburgh (small sample size for both teams, they only had 6 and 7 picks in the first 3 rounds respectively in those 4 years)

Teams that took more dmen than defencemen - Montreal, they took 5 forwards and 6 defencemen.

So the Flames are 29th out of 30 teams in terms of their ratio of forwards to defencemen in the first three rounds (which I think any objective hockey observer would say are more likely to turn into NHL prospects compared with rounds 4-7). Only the Flames and the Habs took more dmen than forwards in the first 3 rounds (Flames 4 forwards, 5 dmen, Habs 5 forwards, 6 dmen). When one considers the Flames traded a 1st, two 2nds and a 3rd for two dmen, the numbers could arguably be more tilted towards dmen over fowards.

Nashville, your example of stockpiling dmen took 8 forwards, 5 dmen and a goalie in the first 3 rounds over the past 4 years, probably indicative of their internal recognition that they have a number of good dmen but needed forwards.

One might think the Flames have a dearth of dmen on their NHL team, thus the need to focus on dmen. But most hockey observers would say they have at least 5 NHL dmen on their current roster and at most 9 legitimate NHL forwards, thus indicating to most GM's (outside of BT) a need to draft forwards rather than dmen.

For the Flames to be so outside the norm of NHL drafting under BT there are a couple explanations

1) He is oblivious to the organizational need for more forwards
2) He believes that he has a special formula that other GM's have not recognized yet (stockpiling on dmen)
3) He is acquiring assets for a yet to be realized trade that he is waiting for at least 12 months to perform

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

So

Teams that took more dmen than defencemen - Montreal, they took 5 forwards and 6 defencemen.

So the Flames are 29th out of 30 teams in terms of their ratio of forwards to defencemen in the first three rounds (which I think any objective hockey observer would say are more likely to turn into NHL prospects compared with rounds 4-7). Only the Flames and the Habs took more dmen than forwards in the first 3 rounds (Flames 4 forwards, 5 dmen, Habs 5 forwards, 6 dmen). When one considers the Flames traded a 1st, two 2nds and a 3rd for two dmen, the numbers could arguably be more tilted towards dmen over fowards.

If your data is correct, the Flames are 30th, rather than 29th, in the F-to-D ratio, as 4/9 is smaller than 5/11, which even further proves your point.

Regardless of whether you believe in drafting for BPA or factoring in the position, it is interesting and worth discussing that BT is drafting the most D relative to F in the whole league.

[Dajazz]

D Hamilton is probably rated a top 10 Dman the whole league. That he "might" fetch a top six winger is aninine.

I would expect at LEAST an established top 6 forward, a first and a A prospect. He gets a lot of hate on this forum, there isn't a GM in the league that wouldn't offer Tre a lot more than he gave up.

He pretty much gets you a Benn or Seguin type straight up, perhaps more, he is a star in this league.

[GordonBlue]

Originally Posted by Dajazz

D Hamilton is probably rated a top 10 Dman the whole league. That he "might" fetch a top six winger is aninine.

I would expect at LEAST an established top 6 forward, a first and a A prospect. He gets a lot of hate on this forum, there isn't a GM in the league that wouldn't offer Tre a lot more than he gave up.

He pretty much gets you a Benn or Seguin type straight up, perhaps more, he is a star in this league.

ok. to get this straight. you think Hamilton is one of the top 10 defensemen in the entire league and is worth perhaps more than Seguin?

I can agree he is a very good defenseman, and some people may be underrating him. but I think you're way overrating how good he is at this point in time.

[mikephoen]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

But they weren’t. So what do you do now?

I lean towards minor tinkering with the lineup and seeing what a good established coach can do with them. But I wish I had more info to make a more informed decision.

[Toonage]

We know a major move or two is coming but I'd prefer they settle any coaching issues first. I think you want that coach in on any personnel decisions as they may have a plan or some idea of how they could get better production out of players that have been miscast or just haven't produced to this point. After this season you'll want a complete management team in place to make sure that everyone is on the same page going forward.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Dajazz

D Hamilton is probably rated a top 10 Dman the whole league. That he "might" fetch a top six winger is aninine.

I would expect at LEAST an established top 6 forward, a first and a A prospect. He gets a lot of hate on this forum, there isn't a GM in the league that wouldn't offer Tre a lot more than he gave up.

He pretty much gets you a Benn or Seguin type straight up, perhaps more, he is a star in this league.

I have to agree Hamilton is a top 10-11 d-man in this league......


if Winnipeg, Nashville and Calgary were the only 3 teams in the league.

He would not be top-4 in Winnipeg Byfuglien Myers Trouba Morrissey or Nashville Josi Subban Elkholm Ellis

All of these 8 players kill penalties and are able to play the last minute of a one goal game. They also are able to play the PP. They would all step in if their goalie was run. Granted they would not have to fight Lucic or Reaves because their teammates would create a dogpile

conceding that Gio is better that leaves Hamilton as #10 out of these 3 teams at best.

Brodie has played at a significantly higher level than Hamilton when playing with Gio AND Engelland as his partners so another team looking in might rate Brodie higher when trying to fit him into their team.

[chedder]

Agree. If Treliving doesn't fire GG before making any roster changes, he should go too.

[2ArmBands]

A big shakeup of the roster is the most idiotic move I can think of. Yes, some pieces need to be adjusted like any off season but moving guys like Bennett or Dougie before making a coaching change is insane.

Obviously everyone has a return that needs to be considered but we are selling very low on Bennett... I can't see a return that makes sense or would excite anyone.

This roster for the most part needs another chance under a new coach. It is the easiest and most obvious move to be made. If Tre keeps Gully behind the bench he is displaying extreme ignorance. Listen Brad... you were wrong about Gully. Everyone can see it ... admit your mistake and move on.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by mikephoen

I lean towards minor tinkering with the lineup and seeing what a good established coach can do with them. But I wish I had more info to make a more informed decision.

You have to address the right wing position. I think they need to add two offensive minded forwards. One really good one and one good one. But at minimum you need to bring in a top 6 RW so that everyone else can slot more appropriately.
So it is a question of if you can do that with minor tinkering or not.
But it isn't like the right side under achieved. It just sucks. So entering the season next year without that being addressed would be foolish in my mind.

[troutman]

I'd start at the top - show King and Burke the door. I'm 50/50 on keeping Treliving (the Hamonic trade was terrible asset management IMO - could have added a 2nd paring d-man in free agency). Coaches likely will be fired by whoever is GM.

[Toonage]

If (huge if) the Flames want to make a change at the GM position, not only do they have Don Maloney sitting there in house, but Dean Lombardi is pro scouting for the Flyers if I'm not mistaken and he worked pretty well with one Darryl Sutter a few years back.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by GordonBlue

ok. to get this straight. you think Hamilton is one of the top 10 defensemen in the entire league and is worth perhaps more than Seguin?

I can agree he is a very good defenseman, and some people may be underrating him. but I think you're way overrating how good he is at this point in time.

Need to take into consideration the contracts. Hamilton has 3 more years at under $6M. Seguin has 1 then will require at least $10M to keep.

Dougie is 24 and has 4 straight seasons of more than 40pts while providing incredible advanced stats playing against top opposition.

Considering his age, size, skating, scoring, contract he carries an incredible amount of value. Flames should be able to get a top winger and a pick for him or a comparable centre

[Classic_Sniper]

I find it laughable that so many people in this fanbase believes that every player will just automatically pick up their game once the Flames fire GG; as if his coaching has stunted all of their play or something. I don't know if it's because so many people here fall in love with a player and can't fathom the thought that they're really just not that good, i'm really not sure.

But what I do know is that we've seen 14 coaches in the last 29 years and we've seen basically the same results every year. Only 2 times has this franchise been out of round 1. So, if anyone actually thinks that firing another coach is going to be the answer, then they may truly be insane as we can continue doing the same thing over and over and over again, but until this organization and fanbase fixes the way we think, we're probably going to have another 30 year run of mediocrity.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

I find it laughable that so many people in this fanbase believes that every player will just automatically pick up their game once the Flames fire GG; as if his coaching has stunted all of their play or something. I don't know if it's because so many people here fall in love with a player and can't fathom the thought that they're really just not that good, i'm really not sure.

But what I do know is that we've seen 14 coaches in the last 29 years and we've seen basically the same results every year. Only 2 times has this franchise been out of round 1. So, if anyone actually thinks that firing another coach is going to be the answer, then they may truly be insane as we can continue doing the same thing over and over and over again, but until this organization and fanbase fixes the way we think, we're probably going to have another 30 year run of mediocrity.

What? The way we think? So what do you think the problem is? Flames jerseys are cursed?