The trials and tribulations of Glen Gulutzan

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Frank MetaMusil

He inherited a playoff team. Definitely not bottom 5.

That was blown up before his first season ended. The Phaneuf and Jokinen trades put the roster in a tailspin and could never be recovered. The roster got worse every year after. IMO Sutter overachieved with those rosters.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by CF84

It's a Korg Triton Studio 88 that sold new for $4200 and it doesn't sound like a cheap Casio...It's no Hammond B3 though haha

It's a decent (but not top end) machine. So why is he using that gawdawful patch for the anthem?

[Itse]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Seriously the rosters Sutter had in the last two seasons were pretty bad. It's actually amazing he could parlay a blue line consisting of Chris Butler, Scott Hannan, Anton Babchuk, Corey Sarich into a 90 point team.

What's the excuse for the first year?
Also, Cory Sarich wasn't bad in 2010-11, and more importantly we also had Giordano, Regehr and Bouwmeester. That's not bad.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Itse

What's the excuse for the first year?
Also, Cory Sarich wasn't bad in 2010-11, and on top of that we had Giordano, Regehr and Bouwmeester. That's not bad.

The team was blown up in January of the first season. When is the last time a team added five new regular (Hagman, Stajan, Mayers, White, Kotalik) players to the roster mid season? It's like training camp in February while the season is on. I love Sarich the guy but he was awful at that time and that roster just got worse every season after.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

That was blown up before his first season ended. The Phaneuf and Jokinen trades put the roster in a tailspin and could never be recovered. The roster got worse every year after. IMO Sutter overachieved with those rosters.

Phaneuf was traded because the roster was in a tail spin. This is an indictment of Sutter's coaching, not a defence.

Also of note, your attempted defence of Sutter using examples from the bottom half of the defence while conveniently ignoring the presence of Giordano, Regehr and Bouwmeester.

[The Boy Wonder]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

The team was blown up in January of the first season. When is the last time a team added five new regular (Hagman, Stajan, Mayers, White, Kotalik) players to the roster mid season? It's like training camp in February while the season is on. I love Sarich the guy but he was awful at that time and that roster just got worse every season after.

I mean that Dion trade can only be considered in a vacuum. There were reasons behind the scenes that have been all but confirmed many times over but are still hypothetical that forced Darryl to move the Dion.

But yes they did basically implode the team because Darryl didn’t get fair value at the time for Dion.

[NuclearFart]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Phaneuf was traded because the roster was in a tail spin. This is an indictment of Sutter's coaching, not a defence.

Definitely not the reason Phaneuf was traded then and like that. Take any one of the former Flames staffers out for a beer and they'll tell you all about the stuff that precipitated that trade.

[Scroopy Noopers]

All reasons why Phaneuf was traded are related to who Phaneuf is as a team mate and person.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Phaneuf was traded because the roster was in a tail spin. This is an indictment of Sutter's coaching, not a defence.

Also of note, your attempted defence of Sutter using examples from the bottom half of the defence while conveniently ignoring the presence of Giordano, Regehr and Bouwmeester.

Well yeah the team had a losing streak not a lot different than the 85 team that lost 11 straight and made the Cup finals. Only difference is Fletcher didn't have the knee jerk reaction to blow things up. The only people that think those were playoff rosters is Flames fans as the rest of the league was laughing at the Flames over those years. Take a look at the roster for Brent's 3rd season and tell me with a straight face he didn't overachieve getting 90 points from that group. That was a horrible roster.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

All reasons why Phaneuf was traded are related to who Phaneuf is as a team mate and person.

I don't know about that. I really don't think he is a terrible person at all. I mean this is a guy that gave a significant portion of his signing bonus as a teenager to the tsunami relief and has always been very active in children's charities. Maybe some of his swagger rubbed people the wrong way, but he is hardly a terrible person. I know for a fact that he was well-liked in Ottawa.

Sutter was simply trying to get more depth for what he foresaw as a diminishing asset. He made a bad trade (IMO), but his overall body of work with the Flames was good.

[Ryan Coke]

Lots of stories I’ve heard from people that he is not a good person.

Or at least was when he was in Calgary.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by NuclearFart

Definitely not the reason Phaneuf was traded then and like that. Take any one of the former Flames staffers out for a beer and they'll tell you all about the stuff that precipitated that trade.

No. There were ... rumours. But my point was that Erick's contention that the roster ended up in a tailspin after Phaneuf and Jokinen were traded was incorrect. That team was falling apart long before they moved. And while the Phaneuf trade may have been Darryl's attempt at saving the room, a partial motivation certainly was to try and also save a season that had already gone off the rails.

[Scroopy Noopers]

I thought we wanted Darryl to come back and coach? We all know he shouldn't be the GM. But he's one of the best coaches in the game and he's available.

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by Ryan Coke

Lots of stories I’ve heard from people that he is not a good person.

Or at least was when he was in Calgary.

He was also a 20-year old millionaire. It happens. People grow up.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

He was also a 20-year old millionaire. It happens. People grow up.

100% this. I'm not going to pile on the guy for that reason. But, he was traded to get him out of the dressing room. Period.

[NiklasSundblad]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Phaneuf was traded because the roster was in a tail spin. This is an indictment of Sutter's coaching, not a defence.

Daryl Sutter hadn't been the coach in nearly 4 years when Phaneuf was traded.

Derp. I literally completely forgot about Brent...

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Igottago

Nice spin. He took a perennial playoff team and sank them, missing every year.

How is this for a spin?

The Flames 4th highest paid forward at the start of that year was Rene Bourque who made 1.6M. That’s right the 4th highest paid forward.

Sutter let 39 goals and 82pts of Cammalleri walk that summer because he wanted to spend all that money on the Blueline with the addition of Bouwmeester. Bertuzzi was also not replaced and he provided reasonable secondary scoring the previous year.

Iginla, Jokinen, Langkow and then a bunch of Guyana getting paid 4th line money.

Not surprisingly that team finished in top 5 GAA and bottom 3 in goals scored. Sutter went out and got Stajan, Hagman, Kotalik, Higgins to provide offense.

[Stanley]

Amidst all this fire GG stuff, I was thinking...

...what if our roster is simply not good enough regardless of coaches? What if our expectations are too high?

I know we have some great pieces in Mony/Johnny/Chuck/Backs/Janko/Gio/Hamilton, and to some extent still potential with Bennett, but outside of that...it's really not impressive at all. We have a terrible bottom 6 and questionable D outside of Gio/Dougie/Hamonic.

Maybe we're just not that good, period. I mean look at the lineup we're icing with our top forwards out...it's pretty ugly even on paper, let alone on the ice.

Blame GG where it's due, I get that, but does he really have the right players to get 'er done?

[kukkudo]

Originally Posted by Stanley

Amidst all this fire GG stuff, I was thinking...

...what if our roster is simply not good enough regardless of coaches? What if our expectations are too high?

I know we have some great pieces in Mony/Johnny/Chuck/Backs/Janko/Gio/Hamilton, and to some extent still potential with Bennett, but outside of that...it's really not impressive at all. We have a terrible bottom 6 and questionable D outside of Gio/Dougie/Hamonic.

Maybe we're just not that good, period. I mean look at the lineup we're icing with our top forwards out...it's pretty ugly even on paper, let alone on the ice.

Blame GG where it's due, I get that, but does he really have the right players to get 'er done?

Nah they should be a legit playoff wildcard team. Adding Hamonic and Smith should of got the Flames into the playoffs. GG can take his amateur coaching to the AHL.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Stanley

Amidst all this fire GG stuff, I was thinking...

...what if our roster is simply not good enough regardless of coaches? What if our expectations are too high?

I know we have some great pieces in Mony/Johnny/Chuck/Backs/Janko/Gio/Hamilton, and to some extent still potential with Bennett, but outside of that...it's really not impressive at all. We have a terrible bottom 6 and questionable D outside of Gio/Dougie/Hamonic.

Maybe we're just not that good, period. I mean look at the lineup we're icing with our top forwards out...it's pretty ugly even on paper, let alone on the ice.

Blame GG where it's due, I get that, but does he really have the right players to get 'er done?

It's a fair question. I would counter and say how many close games did this team lose in December and January where in the post game we commented "the powerplay was the difference"? I think it was a lot and while players deserve blame for missing nets and overpassing there's not much dispute that the powerplay has not been well run whether it be the scheme or personnel. It's pretty clear this roster has holes but there are few if any perfect rosters in this league.

I like Glen Gulutzan the person so I've been trying hard not to demonize the guy for doing what he thought was best for this team but his vision of how things should be done simply hasn't translated on the ice. While I've never been a fan of the hire I've always tried to remain open minded as my post following last season indicates;

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Next season will be his fourth season as NHL head coach so he's far removed from being considered a rookie NHL head coach. I expect he will draw from his experience this season but I wouldn't expect him to deviate from rolling four lines as that's a philosophy. He rightly will be the head coach next season but the bar will be raised as he's going to have to make the playoffs and the team will have to play a lot more disciplined and fare better in the playoffs.

Unfortunately he didn't really seem to learn a lot from his first season with this team as he was steadfast in his square peg in round hole approach and with the bar raised the team actually regressed so there's no doubt in my mind he and his staff has to go regardless of how good you think this roster is.