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Old 03-28-2018, 09:31 AM   #141
Monahammer
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And the Smith and McDonald picks aren't bad just in hindsight - people here were calling them bad picks the moment they were announced.
This, I remember feeling absolute disbelief that they didn't take Demko or Dvorak with those picks. I had wanted both. Though in retrospect it is absolutely egregious that they didn't take a flyer on the hometown kid Brayden Point.
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Old 03-28-2018, 09:33 AM   #142
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I understood the Demko snub as he was coming off of (or required, memory is fuzzy) hip surgery. The Smith pick made some sense too as they wanted to get bigger, grittier, etc. Also wasn't McDonald ranked higher than Demko or am I off about that?
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Old 03-28-2018, 09:56 AM   #143
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And the Smith and McDonald picks aren't bad just in hindsight - people here were calling them bad picks the moment they were announced. It really is remarkable how the Flames have hung onto a scouting staff that has proven itself to be so incompetent. There have been drafts when a fan at home making the picks using the Hockey News rankings would have done better - much better - than the Flames.

Maybe ownership doesn't want to pay for top-flight scouts. I don't know. It is interesting that when asked to comment on the strength of the Jets prospects pipeline, Chevaldae credited ownership with "recognizing that spending on scouting is an investment, not an expense." Presumably, that belief isn't shared by all teams. I'd be curious to see a league comparison of how much the teams spend on scouting.
The Hunter Smith pick to me just screams Brian Burke. He loves his truculence and size and overpaying a player like seems like a thing he would do. Just look at what Burke paid for to draft Luke Schenn or the Kevin Westgarth pick up or the Lane McDermid trade where dude retired shortly after being acquired. Just too bad decisions from management over his tenure, burning too many assets for the wrong types of players.
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Old 03-28-2018, 10:04 AM   #144
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The 2014 draft turned out pretty bad for the Flames. Bennett is looking more and more like a disappointment as the season chugs along, hunter smith and mason mcdonald are massive busts. Hickey is gonzo. Just a brutal draft considering how high we picked.

Scouts should’ve had Bennett flagged, no dynamic offensive qualities, questionable hockey iq, had penalty problems before he was even drafted. When you have more minor penalties then you have points, you’re not helping your team win games.
Don't forget a 3rd round pick for Brandon Bollig.

Well, I guess we would have used that pick on a refrigerator anyway.
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Old 03-28-2018, 10:18 AM   #145
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Don't forget a 3rd round pick for Brandon Bollig.

Well, I guess we would have used that pick on a refrigerator anyway.
Dinosaur thinking. When will this organization learn from their mistakes. The scouting department really needs to be overhauled here. The Troy Brouwer and Lazar and possibly even the Hamonic trade should be the last straw. I don't have any confidence that these pro scouts will make the right decision on important player personnel for next season. They'll probably trade our most important assets on more magic beans and a right winger who's Troy Brouwer Version 2.0.
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Old 03-28-2018, 10:26 AM   #146
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Dinosaur thinking. When will this organization learn from their mistakes. The scouting department really needs to be overhauled here. The Troy Brouwer and Lazar and possibly even the Hamonic trade should be the last straw. I don't have any confidence that these pro scouts will make the right decision on important player personnel for next season. They'll probably trade our most important assets on more magic beans and a right winger who's Troy Brouwer Version 2.0.
I think our last few drafts after 2014 were better, so I guess I don't really have much to complain about after that (besides not identifying that DeBrincat was going to burst out... it seems 30 teams missed that, too).

I think the pro scouting staff is a big issue. Besides Frolik, what player acquisition has actually improved this team? Why did they spend months scouting all these teams and then determine that our big pick up this season would be Chris Stewart?

How can somebody be employed by a National Hockey League team and think this after watching a player for so long?
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Old 03-28-2018, 10:50 AM   #147
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I think our last few drafts after 2014 were better, so I guess I don't really have much to complain about after that (besides not identifying that DeBrincat was going to burst out... it seems 30 teams missed that, too).

I think the pro scouting staff is a big issue. Besides Frolik, what player acquisition has actually improved this team? Why did they spend months scouting all these teams and then determine that our big pick up this season would be Chris Stewart?

How can somebody be employed by a National Hockey League team and think this after watching a player for so long?
It's the same group that thought that Eddie Lack, Jonas Hiller and Brian Elliott were going to be good goaltenders for us. Same group that wanted Shinkaruk over Granlund and the same group that liked Niklas Grossman and Tanner Glass. We're still paying Mason Raymond to play in Europe by the way. Too many misses left, right and center. I'm afraid that another bad offseason could set this team so far back to the point where we miss out on the Giordano and Gaudreau window.
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Old 03-28-2018, 11:32 AM   #148
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It's the same group that thought that Eddie Lack, Jonas Hiller and Brian Elliott were going to be good goaltenders for us. Same group that wanted Shinkaruk over Granlund and the same group that liked Niklas Grossman and Tanner Glass. We're still paying Mason Raymond to play in Europe by the way. Too many misses left, right and center. I'm afraid that another bad offseason could set this team so far back to the point where we miss out on the Giordano and Gaudreau window.
I just think there is such a contrast in this organization's moves that I can't get a pulse on anything. One day we're making great moves at the draft and the next day we're signing Troy Brouwer.

I think there are too many cooks in the kitchen but I can't provide any evidence of that short of anecdotes and discussion.
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Old 03-28-2018, 12:56 PM   #149
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I understood the Demko snub as he was coming off of (or required, memory is fuzzy) hip surgery. The Smith pick made some sense too as they wanted to get bigger, grittier, etc. Also wasn't McDonald ranked higher than Demko or am I off about that?
Demko was the highest ranked goalie in North America by Central Scouting. McDonald was number 2. I don't remember anything about Demko needing major surgery before the draft. Hunter Smith was picked close to where he was ranked by Central Scouting but there was always questions about his skating.
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Old 03-28-2018, 12:59 PM   #150
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Demko was the highest ranked goalie in North America by Central Scouting. McDonald was number 2. I don't remember anything about Demko needing major surgery before the draft. Hunter Smith was picked close to where he was ranked by Central Scouting but there was always questions about his skating.
Found an article about it. He had the surgery in 2015 but I remember the talk being that it was either coming or had just happened and I wondered if it hurt his standing with some teams (such as the Flames).

http://vancouversun.com/sports/hocke...mko-a-new-life
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Old 03-28-2018, 01:18 PM   #151
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Maybe I've been out of the loop too long but if I remember correctly, back in 2014 you still had the LA Kings "heavy style" vs. Chicago "speed style" schools going at it.

From that perspective it was understandable back then to go for those big guys at the draft like Hunter Smith. Only right after that in the last couple of years it seems like every team is going for that high paced, offensive style hockey.
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Old 03-28-2018, 01:25 PM   #152
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It wasn't just 'Brian Burke' that was the impetus for the Hunter Smith pick (or Kanzig, or any other bigger prospect).

Feaster himself stated (before Burke was brought on) that this team finds itself too small. It was an organizational correction there, IMO. the issue is HAVING to make an organizational correction in the first place. The Flames should have been building a well-rounded team from the start. Thank goodness Ferland turned out, and that Bennett plays like he is 5" taller and 30lbs heavier than he really is. Thank goodness the Flames lucked into Tkachuk after the Canucks screwing that one up royally.

Flames now have a good mix of size, skill and speed. They just have to have a fricken decent system implemented that will use it properly (and their defence).
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Old 03-28-2018, 01:35 PM   #153
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Ownership is the true issue with this organization.

Everything seems to be focused on profit first (which is fine, they are running a business) but the appetite for “short term financial pain” in the form of spending on competent scouting and above average coaching doesn’t seem to be there. The longer term gains you would see from his up front investment would be a sustained period of being better and increased revenues and profit.


It’s just really hard to see how it isn’t a culture problem starting at the very top of we have only advanced past the first round twice in the past 25 years...

That’s abysmal

And honestly you would think if ~50% of teams get into the playoffs each year and ~25% of teams win a round

Then the flames have only finished a season in he top 25% of teams twice in a quarter century
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Old 03-28-2018, 06:27 PM   #154
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It wasn't just 'Brian Burke' that was the impetus for the Hunter Smith pick (or Kanzig, or any other bigger prospect).

Feaster himself stated (before Burke was brought on) that this team finds itself too small. It was an organizational correction there, IMO. the issue is HAVING to make an organizational correction in the first place. The Flames should have been building a well-rounded team from the start. Thank goodness Ferland turned out, and that Bennett plays like he is 5" taller and 30lbs heavier than he really is. Thank goodness the Flames lucked into Tkachuk after the Canucks screwing that one up royally.

Flames now have a good mix of size, skill and speed. They just have to have a fricken decent system implemented that will use it properly (and their defence).
I disagree. This team doesn’t have the right mix of anything right now. They’ve failed to win a playoff game in 3 straight years and it’s been something else every season that has afflicted this team. There’s something fundamentally wrong with the entire organization as it’s been basically 3 decades of consistent failure. Minus 1 run in 2004, we’ve advanced to the 2nd round once in nearly 30 years. This organization has to cut off the poisonous root of the problem because it clearly runs deeper than what we’re seeing on the surface.
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Old 03-28-2018, 09:13 PM   #155
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I honestly can't believe the amount of people here that have given up on Bennett. I honestly think it would be a huge mistake to trade him.

I dare say we compare his development to our current 2nd line centre, and in my honest opinion I see very similar progress. Backlund was 25 before he had a 30 point season, and really only started peaking 2 seasons ago. If we were willing to wait for Backlund to develop until age 25 I simply can't fathom giving up on Bennett this soon.

Code:
             GP   G   A    Age at time
Bennett      236  42  47        21
Backlund     245  41  50        25

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Old 03-28-2018, 11:20 PM   #156
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Originally Posted by The Boy Wonder View Post
Ownership is the true issue with this organization.

Everything seems to be focused on profit first (which is fine, they are running a business) but the appetite for “short term financial pain” in the form of spending on competent scouting and above average coaching doesn’t seem to be there. The longer term gains you would see from his up front investment would be a sustained period of being better and increased revenues and profit.


It’s just really hard to see how it isn’t a culture problem starting at the very top of we have only advanced past the first round twice in the past 25 years...

That’s abysmal

And honestly you would think if ~50% of teams get into the playoffs each year and ~25% of teams win a round

Then the flames have only finished a season in he top 25% of teams twice in a quarter century
This doesn't make a ton of sense given they have spent to the cap. If they were intent on saving money they could save millions there more easily. How does the Flames scouting staff compare to those around the league?

If there is a top down problem I see it largely being lack of patience both in terms of trying to accelerate re-builds and not sticking with a regime for long enough. But I don't think this ownership is hurting the organization by being cheap.

And I also don't think the Flames have a particularly bad scouting track record. Some hits, some misses. Just like most. They aren't elite, but they aren't bad.
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Old 03-29-2018, 12:18 AM   #157
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