Treliving needs to start feeling the heat - Page 48 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

dino7c · 03-20-2018, 07:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheOnlyBilko

Don't trade anymore 1st round draft picks ever again. I can't remember Calgary really ever coming out ahead, like where it was worth while when we traded our 1st round pick.

Hamilton was well worth it...you have a short memory

bubbsy · 03-20-2018, 07:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dino7c

Hamilton was well worth it...you have a short memory

Hard to suggest that so strongly. Given where the team is at, how much better/worse this team would be with those picks/prospects in the ranks, is really anybody's guess.

Only time a team should be trading their 1st is if it is assured to be a 25-31st overall pick (ie. At the deadline or at the draft).

Trading a first when the team is a mediocre bubble team the year before is plain stupid in my opinion.

Kjesse · 03-20-2018, 07:44 AM

In hindsight the Hamonic trade doesn't look good, but that's what happens when the whole team is failing-- the fans want draft picks to improve but they were sold. I'm still OK with the trade as at the time it made sense.

Its pretty amazing that with the defense roster, which appears solid on paper, the Flames' defense has been quite poor, and has been quite porous a lot of the time.

Treliving standing pat at the deadline this year was the right thing to do. The Flames should have been making making the playoffs, so it wasn't time to sell.

Now that we know they won't make the playoffs, expect Treliving will at the end of the season give a press conference where he uses his favourite word, "process" and that they'll make decisions in due course. And I think that's good, and that the process will result in a new coaching staff.

At this stage I'd say that GG's coaching is not merely being unhelpful to the team, its actually hurting the team. There has been a significant amount of lack of puck luck, but still, there is something about the way the team plays that puts me to sleep even when they're out-shooting and out-chancing the other team, a retool of their offensive approach is in order. And GG can't be the one to deliver that, he doesn't deploy players effectively.

Racki · 03-20-2018, 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by atb

What’s especially tough is how off the board Treliving went with GG. If he’d brought in Boudreau or McLellan and had this type of result, you could at least say he tried to get a guy with a solid track record. There was nothing to suggest GG was a good coach and feels like a massive letdown compared to how we see saw the team play under Hartley.

Yes, well said. The Gulutzan hiring was an absolute head scratcher. There were numerous names being tossed around at the time - I gave no credence to the Gulutzan rumour. Still shocked that he was the guy. Hell, I'd have preferred Randy Carlyle.

Angelino · 03-20-2018, 07:48 AM

Burke and Treliving should both be fired first. The new leadership can fire Glue gun and friends.

dino7c · 03-20-2018, 07:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bubbsy

Hard to suggest that so strongly. Given where the team is at, how much better/worse this team would be with those picks/prospects in the ranks, is really anybody's guess.

Only time a team should be trading their 1st is if it is assured to be a 25-31st overall pick (ie. At the deadline or at the draft).

Trading a first when the team is a mediocre bubble team the year before is plain stupid in my opinion.

They traded it for a 24 year old first pairing Dman that is leading the league in goals. Just because the Flames had a bad year doesn't mean it was bad. 16% of first round picks turn into a top 4 D or top6 forward.

bubbsy · 03-20-2018, 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dino7c

They traded it for a 24 year old first pairing Dman that is leading the league in goals. Just because the Flames had a bad year doesn't mean it was bad. 16% of first round picks turn into a top 4 D or top6 forward.

This team is not good. In a league where half the teams make the playoffs, this is a bubble team, so they're average, heck, a below average team. That's with Hamilton.

The quality of the team could be just as good/bad with those prospects than they have been with Hamilton.

Unpopular opinion alert: Giordano is a true #1 dman. Brodie had career years playing with him (looking lost since). Hamilton's lackadaisical defence is often hidden thanks to Giordano. No gio, and Hamilton is a new cp whipping boy, in spite of the goals.

All I'm saying is that given the roster still sucks, hard to say if the Hamilton trade is a homerun.

Gaskal · 03-20-2018, 08:05 AM

I don't think Treliving's enough of a gambler to stick with Gulutzan for a third year, if the contract was indeed the rumored 2 year + team option for 3rd. He wouldn't even have to go through exit interviews to realize that the team has tuned the coach out even if he's not a hardass.

I bet the players are all going to tell Brad a description along the lines of good person, smart hockey guy, but bad coaching and leadership skills.

dino7c · 03-20-2018, 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bubbsy

This team is not good. In a league where half the teams make the playoffs, this is a bubble team, so they're average, heck, a below average team. That's with Hamilton.

The quality of the team could be just as good/bad with those prospects than they have been with Hamilton.

Unpopular opinion alert: Giordano is a true #1 dman. Brodie had career years playing with him (looking lost since). Hamilton's lackadaisical defence is often hidden thanks to Giordano. No gio, and Hamilton is a new cp whipping boy, in spite of the goals.

All I'm saying is that given the roster still sucks, hard to say if the Hamilton trade is a homerun.

Some of the best players in the league play on teams that suck. It's a terrible argument to say it's a bad deal because the Flames wouldn't be that much worse.

Trading picks for a young player and trading picks for a rental are very different situations. Hamilton was about to be offer sheeted it's not like BT was way off base.

Toonage · 03-20-2018, 08:18 AM

We'd be screaming at BT if Hamilton did end up on the Oilers and he didn't give up a 1st when he could have.

bubbsy · 03-20-2018, 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dino7c

Some of the best players in the league play on teams that suck. It's a terrible argument to say it's a bad deal because the Flames wouldn't be that much worse.

Trading picks for a young player and trading picks for a rental are very different situations. Hamilton was about to be offer sheeted it's not like BT was way off base.

Let's talk after we see Hamilton man his own pairing away from Giordano.

Giordano and Brodie were pretty darn dominant too...

dino7c · 03-20-2018, 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toonage

We'd be screaming at BT if Hamilton did end up on the Oilers and he didn't give up a 1st when he could have.

They gave up first overall Taylor Hall for a far worse player. They also made almost the same deal as the Flames for Reinhart lol.

Top end young D men are hard to aquire... Hamilton is on the Flames for a long time. One ####ty season for the team doesn't change his value moving forward.

bubbsy · 03-20-2018, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toonage

We'd be screaming at BT if Hamilton did end up on the Oilers and he didn't give up a 1st when he could have.

Maybe we cheer bt when barzal wins the Calder and solidifies the 2nd line C position, allowing the flames to move Backlund to shore up the 2nd pairing, as gio/Brodie continue to do their thing.

colbym72 · 03-20-2018, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bubbsy

Let's talk after we see Hamilton man his own pairing away from Giordano.

Giordano and Brodie were pretty darn dominant too...

Isn't Hamilton leading all d-men in goals enough though to at least justify it for you?

colbym72 · 03-20-2018, 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bubbsy

Maybe we cheer bt when barzal wins the Calder and solidifies the 2nd line C position, allowing the flames to move Backlund to shore up the 2nd pairing, as gio/Brodie continue to do their thing.

How do we know BT takes Barzal there? There is no guarantee of that. Boston had 3 straight cracks at him and didnt take him. We dont know. Anyone can draft in hindsight.

Toonage · 03-20-2018, 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bubbsy

Maybe we cheer bt when barzal wins the Calder and solidifies the 2nd line C position, allowing the flames to move Backlund to shore up the 2nd pairing, as gio/Brodie continue to do their thing.

And we were guaranteed to pick Barzal?

bubbsy · 03-20-2018, 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toonage

We'd be screaming at BT if Hamilton did end up on the Oilers and he didn't give up a 1st when he could have.

Quote:

Originally Posted by colbym72

How do we know BT takes Barzal there? There is no guarantee of that. Boston had 3 straight cracks at him and didnt take him. We dont know. Anyone can draft in hindsight.

Thats my point. The Hamilton trade was fine but not an obvious homerun. Flames could have been 11th in the west again a few years later with the picks rather than Hamilton.

Ppl like to hope the flames are having an off year and hope to bounce back like the jets. The difference is their gm was patient, had the crap years, but landed big in the draft and are elite thanks to it.

Average/bad teams are better off being patient and growing organically thru the draft rather than trading picks and chasing ufa.

Toonage · 03-20-2018, 08:29 AM

No, your point was we could move the known quantity out for a mystery box.

dino7c · 03-20-2018, 08:31 AM

Even with hindsight drafting it's a tough argument...should tell you something. Is the guy actually selected with that pick even in the league?

dino7c · 03-20-2018, 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bubbsy

Thats my point. The Hamilton trade was fine but not an obvious homerun. Flames could have been 11th in the west again a few years later with the picks rather than Hamilton.

Ppl like to hope the flames are having an off year and hope to bounce back like the jets. The difference is their gm was patient, had the crap years, but landed big in the draft and are elite thanks to it.

Average/bad teams are better off being patient and growing organically thru the draft rather than trading picks and chasing ufa.

Shrewd Jets...lottery winners and haven't won a playoff game in franchise history. On their 7th rebuild at least.