[PGT] Knights 4 Flames 0

[browna]

Originally Posted by direwolf

In my post a few pages back, I was talking more mental toughness, not necessarily physical toughness. These guys are a fragile bunch. I think a more experienced and proven coaching staff could definitely help with this issue.

Were they mentally tough last year? If so, was that in spite of the coaches or have the coaches zapped it out of them this year?

I'll be a broken record on this, because although last year wasn't a banner year, it's a benchmark. With no major roster losses to point to, something else has significantly changed.

[The Boy Wonder]

Originally Posted by browna

Were they mentally tough last year? If so, was that in spite of the coaches or have the coaches zapped it out of them this year?

I'll be a broken record on this, because although last year wasn't a banner year, it's a benchmark. With no major roster losses to point to, something else has significantly changed.

Brouwer and stajan are both a year older and a step slower and yet their minutes increased this year. Maybe that’s it?

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Well yeah, you'd have to be pretty dumb to think not making the pick conditional was an oversight on Treliving's part. There was a bidding war for Hamonic. Treliving got desperate and kept upping the bidding after the other teams backed out. It was a serious misjudgement. You don't pay a 1st and two 2nds for a supporting piece like Hamonic.

Still could have top ten protected it. Or even a top 3 stipulation. Snow would've bought that.

[Braden]

Ouch I probably speak from thousands of flames fans that aren't on this site that was at the game... What an embarrassment, feels a bit better to know I saw the final nail in the coffin. Sad to see all the flames fans going back to there hotels to change.. yep nothing to see here

[442scotty]

Originally Posted by colbym72

If this team had any draft assets, Kane would probably be a Flame.

Kane is playing for a fat contract then he will disappear and go back to be a cancer in the room . Stay far far away

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

I’m afraid that mental toughness you are referring to is not just coaching.

You need to believe in the team, not just yourself.

Team mental collapses are bigger than the individual

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by dammage79

There's a lot of work to be done to this team. filling Roster weaknesses, erasing this fragility thats crept into the team since Gully took over, the coaching. And doing all of this while watching the first 3 rounds of the draft go by as it stands now.

I feel for guys like Smith and Gio who are on the back nine of their respective careers wasting good seasons on a failed experiment.

Then for guys like Monny and Gaudreau who have had great years as well who have wasted a prime year putting up points on a failed experiement.

I don't feel bad for Treliving other than having a coaching hire with the "this is my guy" stamp attached to him. Could potentially cost him his job.

Given that it's been well reported that ownership wanted playoffs and this was the expectation, things could get real ugly throughout the organization.

If you're an owner, tired of losing, disinterested after a failed season, lookin at potential STH losses, having no arena in sight.....do you look at $650 from Houston and seriously consider it?

[Flames Fan, Ph.D.]

Originally Posted by browna

Sure, that’s the way the results have gone, and indirectly, the results came in streaks the way the team is motivated by the coach with specific incidents to motivate as opposed to a more consistent, behind closed door approach.

But what are the other underlying issues or roster issues that have had this go south this year over last?

Gulutzan's game plan has been found out by the league imo. All of the mandatory plays that he seems to force, especially in the defensive zone, have likely been fully game planned this year by opposition coaches.

From the outside, it sure seems to me that even when it's evident to all that it's the case, Gulutzan's likely insistent on staying the course. I can call at least half of their breakout passes / plays just watching on TV, and I've never played organized hockey at any level.

I really think a lack of confidence in the coach can be a backbreaker, especially in a sport like hockey where the coach is constantly involved. These guys need someone back there that they *think* can help them. Every first goal this team gives up seems to flatten the players, and part of it likely has to do with their distrust in the coach / system.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by zamler

I wouldn't mind seeing Gully coaching in Edmonton to be quite honest.

maybe the Oil Kings.

[CedarMeter]

What a terrible game no finish. I was at the game today and all I have say is WOW! What a incredible atmosphere. Every Knight fan around us were classy and having a good time. It felt like a Flames playoff game. Lots of kids there having a hoot. Even though we lost I’m glad I got to see a game in their arena. I’m cheering for them In the playoffs. Awesome experience.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by browna

Serious question, buried probably in my post above.

What was different last year?

Same coach, same roster. Better overall, consistent goaltending, though Elliot was lights out in a key stretch. No Wideman distraction at the back.
Mentally strong comment etc, I don’t think that has regressed. This team battled and gained that experience last year so it’s not knowing what it takes.

So again, what has changed over this time last season?

Biggest difference was that we rode unsustainable OT and shootout records last year. They've normalized this year.

Second biggest difference was that Bennett was our 3C and it made us a better defensive team than people are willing to admit. Jankowski is a good center but I have observed him to not be as much of a rock as Bennett. On the PK, we went from Bennett-Chiasson + Stajan-Bouma with the occasional Bennett-Brouwer or Monahan-Brouwer to the cringey Stajan-Brouwer.

Third biggest difference is Hamonic being a huge offensive downgrade on Wideman and Stone. People continue to overvalue his defensive "contributions" but at the end of the day generating offense is what you need from guys and even Wideman generated more offense, and Stone definitely did.


Fourth biggest difference is that while our Dcore can move the puck now, it is almost counterproductive because it has eaten into our rush scoring. Last year we scored a whole bunch of rush goals with Engelland/Jokipakka/Bartkowski on the ice because those guys were such poor puck movers that we usually got hemmed in and then had to resort to surprisingly effective desperate measures. Not to confuse those guys with being effective, but they were bad enough to be a good offset to Gulutzan's cycle-obsessed system. Kulak is so effective that very few rushes happen now because he makes tape to tape exits.

Right now we have a roster that would thrive under Hartley more than any roster Hartley had.

[browna]

Originally Posted by Flames Fan, Ph.D.

Gulutzan's game plan has been found out by the league imo. All of the mandatory plays that he seems to force, especially in the defensive zone, have likely been fully game planned this year by opposition coaches.


I really think a lack of confidence in the coach can be a backbreaker, especially in a sport like hockey where the coach is constantly involved. These guys need someone back there that they *think* can help them. Every first goal this team gives up seems to flatten the players, and part of it likely has to do with their distrust in the coach / system.

To be fair, the Flames outplayed and out chanced teams a lot more this year than last, and that's in my opinion due to him preparing game plans properly and knowing what the other team set up is.

Where it falls apart is making changes when the other team adapts. And motivating more out of your players.

And that's where the lack of confidence had crept it. As you say, players need to think the coach can help them and that they (coaches) have had success before and has preservered through tough patches. He got by last year as a new coach and benefit of the doubt maybe. But after another year and same lack of tactic change and motivational abilities, the trust and confidence words that his guy does know what he's doing, and with no NHL success to back his tactics and techniques up, the players feel out on a limb.
The majority of ln these guys have been in the playoffs twice in the past 5 years, so nothing is brand new experience. They know what it takes physically and mentally and all the intangibles. But they need a leader behind the bench to organize and channel that energy, and motivate and have full trust to have confidence on the ice as players.

It just seems GG has lost the confidence of the room, which usually happens to even the best coaches, but not until year 5 or so.

[Infinit47]

Originally Posted by browna

Sure, that’s the way the results have gone, and indirectly, the results came in streaks the way the team is motivated by the coach with specific incidents to motivate as opposed to a more consistent, behind closed door approach.

But what are the other underlying issues or roster issues that have had this go south this year over last?

The only difference is that our OT dominance came to and end, and couldn't mask GG's crap system anymore.

[Badgers Nose]

Originally Posted by edslunch

If you're an owner, tired of losing, disinterested after a failed season, lookin at potential STH losses, having no arena in sight.....do you look at $650 from Houston and seriously consider it?

You seriously consider it even if none of those conditions are true.

[Flames Fan, Ph.D.]

Originally Posted by browna

To be fair, the Flames outplayed and out chanced teams a lot more this year than last, and that's in my opinion due to him preparing game plans properly and knowing what the other team set up is.

Where it falls apart is making changes when the other team adapts. And motivating more out of your players.

And that's where the lack of confidence had crept it. As you say, players need to think the coach can help them and that they (coaches) have had success before and has preservered through tough patches. He got by last year as a new coach and benefit of the doubt maybe. But after another year and same lack of tactic change and motivational abilities, the trust and confidence words that his guy does know what he's doing, and with no NHL success to back his tactics and techniques up, the players feel out on a limb.
The majority of ln these guys have been in the playoffs twice in the past 5 years, so nothing is brand new experience. They know what it takes physically and mentally and all the intangibles. But they need a leader behind the bench to organize and channel that energy, and motivate and have full trust to have confidence on the ice as players.

It just seems GG has lost the confidence of the room, which usually happens to even the best coaches, but not until year 5 or so.

I agree with 95% of your post. I'm only going to diverge with the bolded part. We've given up the first goal of the game, early, very often this year.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Badgers Nose

You seriously consider it even if none of those conditions are true.

This, a 1000 times this.

Their sense of keeping the team for community reasons is probably not that strong anymore.

[GullFoss]

Originally Posted by Infinit47

The only difference is that our OT dominance came to and end, and couldn't mask GG's crap system anymore.

Most it's the powerplay and fourth line.

Not having a RH shot on the left side and playing johnny on the left side instead of the right side resulted in the team doing nothing with their PP opportunities. Hartley atleast had hudler as a RH shot. Gully has had no one this year. Gully still sucks, but this part falls on BT as well.

Second, the fourth line has been really bad at scoring. Really really bad.

How to fix:
-need Bennett and/or janko to take a big step forward for backlund can play third line
-need a top 6 forward with a strong RH shot to play on first line.

Not overly complex.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

You need to believe in the team, not just yourself.

Team mental collapses are bigger than the individual

I’m not absolving the coach of blame. But you can’t absolve the players either.

[Kovaz]

To me it boils down to 3 things:

• The 3M line forgetting how to score completely counteracted improvements at 5v5 elsewhere in the lineup (top line, third line, third pair especially)
• The powerplay dropping from 10th to 25th means we no longer score enough goals to win without great goaltending
• Our OT/SO record dipped from practically unbeatable to 50/50

If any of those 3 things were the same as last year, we're sitting in a playoff spot today.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Still could have top ten protected it. Or even a top 3 stipulation. Snow would've bought that.

IDK, the Islanders likely had multiple offers. We will never know if he could have got the deal done and not protected it. I bet the Oilers would have done that deal... Islanders probably assumed our picks would be better.