Arena negotiation discussion. UPD: Flames release their proposal - Page 238 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

nfotiu · 03-05-2018, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

That is interesting as hell. Now the RSN's don't just carry one sport though. Dallas for example, carries hockey, NBA and MLB I'm sure. I guess that makes the RSN model a little more viable, but you wouldn't expect the NHL to get much of that revenue pie.

All that said, the appeal of the US hockey franchise is probably little to do with the TV money. In Houston, for example it would give the owner another 50 or so home dates in an arena that he controls.

Dallas, for example does have the Mavericks and Rangers on their channel. Mavericks average around 40,000 viewers, and the Rangers around 60,000. If they are all unique viewers, and I'm sure they are not, that is 110,000 viewers tops. One other error in my post was that it was just the Dallas DMA, it's the entire state of Texas that is the Stars TV territory. That is 4.3 million cable TV households. So, basically, you go from the RSN collecting 10-20 million dollars per month from all those households to having to get the 110,000 people who actually watch the games to voluntarily pay for that RSN. Still looking at having to charge $100-200 per month to replicate that revenue in the unlikely event you could get that many people to buy the channel.

Also not all sports channels have all 3 sports. Lots of markets have their teams split on Comcast/Fox/Team owned RSNs, each collecting their 2-6 dollars/month from their vast tv territories.

One other point, if you bring a Houston team, they'll be fighting over the Texas territory too. The Astros and Rockets already tried to take advantage of this model in Houston/Texas market and ended up bankrupting their RSN because they tried to push the model too far:

https://www.chron.com/sports/astros/...or-5802868.php

TheSpecialist · 03-13-2018, 12:55 PM

Eric Francis was just on 630 Ched radio and strongly thinks that the Flames will be leaving Calgary. Makes you wonder...

nik- · 03-13-2018, 01:00 PM

He's an owner mouthpiece on this issue.

Hockeyguy15 · 03-13-2018, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSpecialist

Eric Francis was just on 630 Ched radio and strongly thinks that the Flames will be leaving Calgary. Makes you wonder...

If they take Francis with them it might be a good deal for the city.

Erick Estrada · 03-13-2018, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nik-

He's an owner mouthpiece on this issue.

Maybe but the fact that they aren't going to have dealings with the city on a new arena for at least another four years means they have plenty of time to explore all options.

Otto-matic · 03-13-2018, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSpecialist

Eric Francis was just on 630 Ched radio and strongly thinks that the Flames will be leaving Calgary. Makes you wonder...

If the Flames want to move, be my guest. The fact that they are acting like a bunch of kids and sulking after they didn't get their way. Instead of working at getting a fair deal for both sides, they ended talks and won't even work at saving this team.

Erick Estrada · 03-13-2018, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Otto-matic

If the Flames want to move, be my guest. The fact that they are acting like a bunch of kids and sulking after they didn't get their way. Instead of working at getting a fair deal for both sides, they ended talks and won't even work at saving this team.

Do you really mean that? Do you really, really, really mean that? I don't think you do because if you did you wouldn't be a regular poster here. Ask Jets fans what it's like to not have a team. I know a lot of fans like to talk tough like this but I think a lot of fans with this attitude would be very, very sorry if they moved. I just saw this play out on Raiders forums and there are still threads where the Oakland fans are livid even after it's been finalized. Many never thought it would happen and the reality hits really, really hard.

RM14 · 03-13-2018, 01:14 PM

Shocking Eric Francis.

CaptainCrunch · 03-13-2018, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nik-

He's an owner mouthpiece on this issue.

Actually its funny because he's flipped his tone. It wasn't that long ago that he was reassuring people that the Flames weren't leaving, now they are.

I really do believe that the Flames will look at outside of the city solutions, they'd be foolish not to, that's business. Whether they find it or not is another matter. But they need to look, its all about how they negotiate.

Whether we like it or not the relationship between the Flames and Calgary at the highest level is broken, it just is, both sides feel disrespected, and I would assume that the Flames feel that Nenshi expects them to crawl back to him on his terms, and that's not likely to happen.

I would expect that sometime after the season, the Flames owners will either put up a stake in the club for sale, possibly a majority stake. Or attempt to sell it outright and leave it open to bidders in Calgary and out of Calgary, and have no conditions attached about keeping the team in Calgary.

My expectation is that the Flames will move in the next 5 years.

Otto-matic · 03-13-2018, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Do you really mean that? Do you really, really, really mean that? I don't think you do because if you did you wouldn't be a regular poster here. Ask Jets fans what it's like to not have a team. I know a lot of fans like to talk tough like this but I think a lot of fans with this attitude would be very, very sorry if they moved.

If they keep playing hard ball and making all these threats yet won't sit at the table and hammer out a fair deal. Yes I do mean it.

Either they want to make it work in the city or are looking for the first ticket out of town.

I'll be sad if they leave but the way they handled this entire arena debate has soured my opinion on the ownership group.

Manhattanboy · 03-13-2018, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSpecialist

Eric Francis was just on 630 Ched radio and strongly thinks that the Flames will be leaving Calgary. Makes you wonder...

Count me in the group that strongly believes this to be true as well.

Erick Estrada · 03-13-2018, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Otto-matic

If they keep playing hard ball and making all these threats yet won't sit at the table and hammer out a fair deal. Yes I do mean it.

Either they want to make it work in the city or are looking for the first ticket out of town.

I'll be sad if they leave but the way they handled this entire arena debate has soured my opinion on the ownership group.

Come on man. They ran into what is the absolute worst mayor you would ever want go negotiate with on a matter like this that takes everything personally. I don't think there's an owner in professional sports that would have dealt with him and not want to put their hands around his neck. Nenshi has gone out of his way to stick the knife into the Flames owners every chance he got and to me that's not negotiating. Sure the Flames haven't done a bang up job but I think Nenshi has handled it even worse.

Manhattanboy · 03-13-2018, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Whether we like it or not the relationship between the Flames and Calgary at the highest level is broken, it just is, both sides feel disrespected, and I would assume that the Flames feel that Nenshi expects them to crawl back to him on his terms, and that's not likely to happen.

Whether deserved or not there is so much hatred of Nenshi and certain members of Council by ownership that the only hope for a deal may be to wait out their current terms and hope for a change years from now.

HotHotHeat · 03-13-2018, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Come on man. They ran into what is the absolute worst mayor you would ever want go negotiate with on a matter like this that takes everything personally. I don't think there's an owner in professional sports that would have dealt with him and not want to put their hands around his neck. Nenshi has gone out of his way to stick the knife into the Flames owners every chance he got and to me that's not negotiating. Sure the Flames haven't done a bang up job but I think Nenshi has handled it even worse.

Orrrrr Nenshi has watched nearly every other city in North America get ####ed over with bad pro sports arena/stadium deals and simply said 'not here'.

Ashasx · 03-13-2018, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Come on man. They ran into what is the absolute worst mayor you would ever want go negotiate with on a matter like this that takes everything personally. I don't think there's an owner in professional sports that would have dealt with him and not want to put their hands around his neck. Nenshi has gone out of his way to stick the knife into the Flames owners every chance he got and to me that's not negotiating. Sure the Flames haven't done a bang up job but I think Nenshi has handled it even worse.

Then they shouldn't lay it at the feet of the fans who have given this team more than they deserve.

Schultzie · 03-13-2018, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSpecialist

Eric Francis was just on 630 Ched radio and strongly thinks that the Flames will be leaving Calgary. Makes you wonder...

TheSpecialist · 03-13-2018, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSpecialist

Eric Francis was just on 630 Ched radio and strongly thinks that the Flames will be leaving Calgary. Makes you wonder...

Just to expand on what was said. Eric Francis thinks that the most likely destination is Houston and that Murray Edwards won't have any issues selling the team for around $650 million if he doesn't like what the city of Calgary is offering for an arena deal. He is not the kind of guy that would go crawling back to the city like the mayor might expect especially with the current state of the economy.

Erick Estrada · 03-13-2018, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HotHotHeat

Orrrrr Nenshi has watched nearly every other city in North America get ####ed over with bad pro sports arena/stadium deals and simply said 'not here'.

Well we will see how Calgarians feel if "not here" means "NHL not here". I think too many fans in this city are taking this franchise for granted and will not be able to accept the reality. Like I said I just saw this play out first hand in a different city. The posts are all the same except the poster names and avatars and team colors.

Toonage · 03-13-2018, 01:29 PM

Hasn't Francis already been scolded about making claims like this? Namely the owners just can't up and sell the team to whoever, wherever.

RM14 · 03-13-2018, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSpecialist

Just to expand on what was said. Eric Francis thinks that the most likely destination is Houston and that Murray Edwards won't have any issues selling the team for around $650 million if he doesn't like what the city of Calgary is offering for an arena deal. He is not the kind of guy that would go crawling back to the city like the mayor might expect.

What about the other owners?:
- Alvin G. Libin
- Clayton H. Riddell
- Allan Markin
- Jeffery J. McCaig