[PGT] The Flames didn't win

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Red

This is all true if you are a brick layer or a drywaller.
But this is about managing top 1% of hockey players around the globe. You can keep preaching to your kids, but it matters not when you are an NHL player.
We see this and hear about it all the time. Motivation. Playing for each other, how to make your stars tick, etc. All nonsense?

And for the record, I am of the older generation that knows all about paying your dues and working hard etc. But being in a corporate environment for 20 years, I understand what lengths managers have to go through to get the most of their people.

But whatever, keep thinking that every professional hockey player will give you 100% just for pride and satisfaction.

Problem is, the other team is paid to play as well and they have just as much incentive to come out flying after losing 8 straight. The difference is we didn’t lay down and quit like the Sabres did last week.

This team got better as the game went along and we dominated but couldn’t beat their back up goaltender. Call it what you want, a lack of finishers or whatever. But at the end of the day the Islanders got bounces early and we had no luck.

[cannon7]

Last night was a classic example of how a CF% can be gamed. 50+ shots, but only a slight margin in terms of real scoring chances. Certainly not 2:1 in terms of legitimate scoring chances. The Flames have lost a lot of games outshooting their opponents 2:1, hmmm....

[Red]

Classic_Sniper, they only got better because the Isles had the game in the bag. There was no need for them to attack or push the play. They let the Flames rack up the shots.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Red

No amount of skill will make up for lack of commitment or motivation. But you can win on effort alone. We see this every night. How do the Coyotes beat anyone? Oilers? How do the Sabres beat TB?
In an 82 game season it happens a lot. Teams/players take nights off. Your coaches job is to limit those nights. The Flames have been mailing it in all year.
I don't see any fire in the way GG talks. He is a boring analytical person that talks with little confidence. Not a leader.

What does it say about Vingault, Bylsma and Weight that they let their teams get absolutely dominated by this so called “team that lacks commitment and motivation?

We fired nearly 200 shot attempts in the last 2 home games basically doubling up both opponents. That’s effort and commitment right there. Going down 2-0 vs Pittsburgh and then coming back twice against the 2 time defending champs is commitment. We lack skill right now and if this team had a little more finishing ability then we’d be a damn fine team.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

What does it say about Vingault, Bylsma and Weight that they let their teams get absolutely dominated by this so called “team that lacks commitment and motivation?

We fired nearly 200 shot attempts in the last 2 home games basically doubling up both opponents. That’s effort and commitment right there. Going down 2-0 vs Pittsburgh and then coming back twice against the 2 time defending champs is commitment. We lack skill right now and if this team had a little more finishing ability then we’d be a damn fine team.

I think the point is we need that kind of effort and commitment at the start of the game. Islanders are a bad team and so not surprised Flames were ultimately able to dominate them. But spotting even a bad team a big lead is suicide.

[442scotty]

Originally Posted by Red

But whatever, keep thinking that every professional hockey player will give you 100% just for pride and satisfaction.

I'm not that naive to think this. But I do think that if the team has enough leaders of the Giordano , Smith etc mold and if the coaches are the same , then their strength of character should carry the room and everyone buys in. (Eg: Vegas , Nashville, LA )

Maybe the leadership on this team is outnumbered I don't know. In the old days the owners held the hammer and you played well or you were gone. Now the pendulum has swung too far in the opposite direction. The players get their fat contracts and some of them take it a little easier with no real consequences.

Too many passengers and not enough skill on this team. This summer should weed some of the underperformers out hopefully and bring in at least one highly skilled dynamic forward (I can dream can't I?)

[CliffFletcher]

Flames have too many core players who only get excited when they're trying to score. Winning teams are full of core players who are as committed to playing pedal-to-the-metal without the puck as they are with it.

[Red]

I don't know what it means sniper. But I bet that you do though. Keep moving the goal posts.

How many players have thrown themselves to block a shot this year? Stone did in last game and it looked so out of place. That's commitment to win. Getting perimeter shots is fun, but hardly a commitment to anything.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

First, the players aren't all bombing. Some players are performing very well and that can't be ignored even though it doesn't fit the overall storyline or that it hasn't produced the results in the standings.

Second, while it may be naive to say you can overhaul the roster, it is equally naive to think you can fix this stuff if motivation or commitment is a core problem with the roster itself.

Overall I actually see things as follows
- This roster isn't as good as people thought it was, primarily due to a lack of natural goal scoring, and a terrible RW group
- Thus expectations were too high
- The team has still under-performed due to a combination of lack of goal scoring (particularly timely goal scoring), special teams, an injury to their MVP at the worst time, and yes - some bad luck.
- The inability for them to win games they should have (and by that I mean win games where they outplayed the opponents) has made it more difficult to maintain buy-in

I would just like to point out that I and a few others here have been concerned about this for a few seasons now. Why the GM felt that it was worth shipping off a 1st and two 2nd's for a 4th defensemen when the RW group was this bad is something I will never, ever understand. Top line RW should have been priority last season and once again should be top priority this season. Hopefully the GM has learned his lesson here.

[I_H8_Crawford]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

I think with the right coach, this roster can make the playoffs.

I actually can't wait to close the book on the Gulutzan era. Such uninspired hockey. I doubt Quenville gets canned, but Tippett, Darryl and Ruff are available and I am OK with any of those three. If Coach Q becomes available, it'll add to the intrigue.

I almost wish they'd lose 3 games quickly so the misery ends. If they do the unthinkable and win 9 of 12, then I will be happy to go to a playoff game or two.

AV would be another coach I would be looking out for.

[Toonage]

Originally Posted by I_H8_Crawford

AV would be another coach I would be looking out for.

Possibly the perfect fit.

Been to 2 Stanley Cup Finals over the past 7 years. Not too old, success in the current NHL. Won't be as costly as Coach Q would be. Has coached in Canadian markets. Coaching style fits this roster IMO

[Ryan Coke]

GG’s contribution to the sport may be that soon Corsi will be up alongside +/- as stats that have minimal usefulness in the sport.

Not to minimize statistical analysis, or the continuous improvements to various metrics. But it is starting to become clear that shot attempts are often result of good play, not the cause of good play. Chasing better Corsi won’t make a team good, even though a good team is more likely to have better Corsi.

[Red]

Originally Posted by 442scotty

I'm not that naive to think this. But I do think that if the team has enough leaders of the Giordano , Smith etc mold and if the coaches are the same , then their strength of character should carry the room and everyone buys in. (Eg: Vegas , Nashville, LA )

Maybe the leadership on this team is outnumbered I don't know. In the old days the owners held the hammer and you played well or you were gone. Now the pendulum has swung too far in the opposite direction. The players get their fat contracts and some of them take it a little easier with no real consequences.

Too many passengers and not enough skill on this team. This summer should weed some of the underperformers out hopefully and bring in at least one highly skilled dynamic forward (I can dream can't I?)

I agree, this team plays with no emotion. But here is the big question. How do you get wired enough to leave it all on the ice? The ultimate leader in that room is the coach. Or maybe we need someone to pat guys on the back and say "Let's go".

[stone hands]

I don't know why people are getting so up in arms about blocking shots when this teams #1 problem has been goal scoring

Sure, they look lacksidasical - but I have no problems with that when their problem is that they have exactly one sniper in Monahan.

No matter how much these guys hustle it won't help if none of them can finish. You don't need any better example than putting over 100 shots in the last 2 games at home and only have 3 goals

Just ask yourself: did the flames actually just have an entire season where every single ahl callup looked like carey price, or are they just not skilled enough? After 70 ish games its painfully obvious this team doesnt have the guns to be a top echelon group

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

What does it say about Vingault, Bylsma and Weight that they let their teams get absolutely dominated by this so called “team that lacks commitment and motivation?

We fired nearly 200 shot attempts in the last 2 home games basically doubling up both opponents. That’s effort and commitment right there. Going down 2-0 vs Pittsburgh and then coming back twice against the 2 time defending champs is commitment. We lack skill right now and if this team had a little more finishing ability then we’d be a damn fine team.

That's effort and commitment in a rigid, predictable team system. You think it's all on a lack of finishers, I think we definitely need at least another sniper, but there is so much being left on the table with the talent we have because of the system we use.

[mikephoen]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Flames have too many core players who only get excited when they're trying to score. Winning teams are full of core players who are as committed to playing pedal-to-the-metal without the puck as they are with it.

This isn't really true until the playoffs. That's why playoff hockey is so much better than regular season hockey. Every team is playing at something less than 100% effort in the regular season. Vegas might be the only exception to this, and they have special circumstances this year that make it so.

[zamler]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

But to go back to my point, if I don't show up ready to work, I get fired. My manager isn't going to put a lot of time to try and motivate me. He's going to fire me.

I good manager sees potential, some people are diamonds in the rough that need guidance and motivation. Simply expecting people to show up and give their best is lazy management.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I would just like to point out that I and a few others here have been concerned about this for a few seasons now. Why the GM felt that it was worth shipping off a 1st and two 2nd's for a 4th defensemen when the RW group was this bad is something I will never, ever understand. Top line RW should have been priority last season and once again should be top priority this season. Hopefully the GM has learned his lesson here.

That's an expensive lesson for your GM to be learning.

[Fan in Exile]

Originally Posted by Freeway

“You can’t win or lose a game on one shift. There’s been… I’ve been watching a lot of the games obviously, a lot of them from the press box. There’s times in games where it’s okay to try to make a fancy play and there’s other times in games where you just gotta put it in and grind. Gotta go to work, we’ve been saying it all year. It’s about doing the little things and building on the little things when you might not think they’re important things in the game, and they turn out to be the turning points in games. Those are the little things in games we need to build on and get everyone doing it, not just the grinders are blocking shots, we need everyone blocking shots. We need everyone doing the little things that it takes to win games. We do that, and we give ourselves a chance to get in there.”

That's construed as throwing your team-mates under the bus? I'd call that leadership. That's what I'd like to hear from GG, rather than "we're playing the right way, just not getting the results...three chances, three goals...etc. and denying that the team can be better.

[Rick M.]

Originally Posted by Husky

Give credit where credit is due - Gibson made at least half dozen unreal saves.

He was also a sponge. No juicy rebounds.